Really struggling with what to think of the NSA/phone story

[nobodythank you]

Just questioning his statement that he had the "authority".....plus, "wiretaps" is a criminal thing, the intel side of that is quite different, with a ton of checks and balances......

None of which mean a damn thing if the word comes from a high enough station. Just remember, the only interpretation of "lawful order" that matters is the one of the person, group, or party in charge.

 

[0699]

Big Brother Isn't Watching You

(You may have to register (free)) to read the entire article which also cites Smith V MD)

Wait. So BB isn't watching, but I have to register (probably give them an email address?) to read the story?

 

[SpongeBob*24]

I just made this.....might need some work but I am laughing...probably because I am retarded.....:blkeye:

Maybe it should say whistleblower at the top.....stupid brain....:wall:

 

[surgicalcric]

<<SNIP>>. There should be a team at the door of his hotel by now and that fucker should be wearing a hood on a one way trip to the cage he'll spend the rest of his life in. Just my 2c.

I would that he spend the rest of his short life in a noose.

He is a traitor and deserves to die like one.

 

[RetPara]

Looking back at some of the stuff released. How could he of gotten access, even as a SysAdmin, to FISA Court ruling? Those are pretty much national level policy documents.

 

[RackMaster]

Looking back at some of the stuff released. How could he of gotten access, even as a SysAdmin, to FISA Court ruling? Those are pretty much national level policy documents.

Access to someone's office and picking up stuff off desks.

 

[DA SWO]

Looking back at some of the stuff released. How could he of gotten access, even as a SysAdmin, to FISA Court ruling? Those are pretty much national level policy documents.

No document passwords, and not controlling the overall network access.

 

[Scotth]

The guy is looking more and more like Bradley Manning v2

The Guardian's Glenn Greenwald said that the source of the recent National Security Agency leaks has provided him with "thousands" of documents and is at peace with his decision to shed light on top secret programs.

Greenwald told the New York Times that Edward Snowden, the 29-year-old government contractor who served as the source of the leaks reported on by both The Guardian and The Washington Post, understands that he could face the same fate as another prominent leaker.

“He has no regret of any kind, no sense of, ‘Wow, what I have done here? I can’t go back,’ ” Greenwald said. “He is so convinced that he did the right thing.”

Greenwald added: “It’s not like it’s delusional — he’s completely rational. He completely understands that more likely than not, he’s going to end up like Bradley Manning or worse. Yet he has tranquillity.”

Manning is facing a potential life sentence after confessing to leaking thousands of classified documents to WikiLeaks.

According to Greenwald, Snowden has provided the archives of "thousands" of documents and "dozens" are newsworthy. Greenwald has suggested in recent days that more revelations are imminent, saying Monday during an interview on MSNBC that "there's a lot more coming."

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/greenwald-snowden-knows-he-s-going-to-end?ref=fpb

 

[Scotth]

Looking back at some of the stuff released. How could he of gotten access, even as a SysAdmin, to FISA Court ruling? Those are pretty much national level policy documents.

You don't need SysAdmin or Domain Admin rights to do damage. The person that handles User Admin can see everything that is on the network. The person that hands out rights to others first has to have rights to that area. You don't need direct server access to be able to have access to everything on a file server. With his lack of education and limited experience I would bet money that the guy was handling user administration on the network and just started snooping around the file server grabbing any data he wanted.

 

[Brill]

I just made this.....might need some work but I am laughing...probably because I am retarded.....:blkeye:

Maybe it should say whistleblower at the top.....stupid brain....:wall:

I'd replace the last photo with this to ensure 100% accuracy:

"No shit, there I was armed with a red stapler and surrounded by emails..."

 

[RetPara]

You don't need SysAdmin or Domain Admin rights to do damage. The person that handles User Admin can see everything that is on the network. The person that hands out rights to others first has to have rights to that area. You don't need direct server access to be able to have access to everything on a file server. With his lack of education and limited experience I would bet money that the guy was handling user administration on the network and just started snooping around the file server grabbing any data he wanted.

BTDT in the private sector and current agency.

In NDS or Active Directory, best practices would dictate that the two access levels/type should be separate (NOT the same person(s)). Also there should be alarms/alerts run by a third group that alert the security folks when anyone access's or attempts to access a directory not specifically in their access groups.

The point I was originally trying to make is that Snowden may very well not be the only one involved in this. He may be the designated fall guy. There is also the possibility that he has been developing a collection of documents at home that Aldridge Ames would of envied.

 

[nobodythank you]

So wait a tick.... are we more upset at the treason, or the fact that our own government is amassing a huge database of all our activity? The line between whistle blower and traitor is a very thin one. More of a matter of perspective really. Now I'll admit I am not as up to speed on the circumstances of this particular case as I would like to be. However, from what I have gleaned, comparing it to Manning is a bit of a stretch. One released classified documents during a time of war with the intent of hurting the effort to prosecute the war. The other released classified documents during a time of war (albeit on a much smaller scale) with the intent of notifying the public of domestic spying and violation of citizen rights. Pretty big differences there. The fact remains, the NSA has no business collecting all of that data. Need to focus on a group suspected of planning attacks? Great. Get a warrant within the pre established guidelines and go after them. There is no open-ended warrant out against the American public. That is not the country I signed up to defend. I'm all for giving government the ability to do its job. Within the confines of the law and without violating my rights.

I can understand the desire and the necessity for wanting to go after someone that has betrayed the country we all love and swore to protect. However, at what point do you say enough? What point do you realize something is wrong and you cannot be part of it? Where is that line drawn? How do you distinguish it from treason or whistle blowing? Faith in your country is not the same as faith in your government. Oh, and to hit the whole pen register thing. Even when using a pen register, a court order is required AND it expires in 60 days (granted the legal standard is weaker than a tap). The court order does not grant unlimited use of ALL numbers for SIX years. I don't deny the benefits of collecting data during an investigation. It's critical. However, explain why the government needs to collect data on every citizen with NO LISTED end date of surveillance? I don't care if it's just data and not the actual conversations. Even though the stretch to including the other is not that difficult, and we all know what the agencies are being used for. There is no reason whats soever to collect that amount of data. We oppose a national firearms registry do we not? Why? So the government doesn't collect mass amounts of data on us to be used to take what is rightfully ours. Why would we be ok with a mass collection of our communications, free speech, social media info, and other bits of electronic information?

 

[DA SWO]

your post

Have to agree.

I believe he may end up doing us a favor.

We now know there is a security lapse that can be fixed.
We know the administration is data mining the citizens (why needs to be determined).

 

[Scotth]

So wait a tick.... are we more upset at the treason, or the fact that our own government is amassing a huge database of all our activity? <snipped for size>

For me the distinction between whistle blower and leaker/treason is very simple. What was your intent. If Snowden had only leaked about the PRISM program I would call him a whistle blower. Even though the program is legal he did what he did for the purpose of informing the American public. When you grab 1000's of documents like Snowden and a 1/4 million like Manning your exposing all kinds of things for no real purpose and doing damage to the country. When you stop trying to right a wrong you crossed the line.

These programs are subjected to regular court review every 90 days that why these programs appear to last forever.

 

[RetPara]

Whole Thing

This is the salient point of all of this. I believe it was here I posted some time ago about those making "From My Cold Dead Hands" statements about gun control. Most people will comply with gun control and offer no resistance because of tertiary impacts on their family. That to resist gun control/confiscation by force of arms would lead to the demonetization of the individual and a campaign that would paint the person in view that would make Hannibal Lector look good.

Snowden has made statements along the same lines of fear for his family. The full blow demonetization of him is well underway.

It is often a knee jerk reaction to defame whistleblowers and leaks. I am certain that one reason I am alive today is a plan to attack Iran was leaked to the old Jack Anderson Washington Post column in the summer of 1980. It was planned for October 1980, just before the Carter/Reagan election.....

 

[RetPara]

For me the distinction between whistle blower and leaker/treason is very simple. What was your intent. If Snowden had only leaked about the PRISM program I would call him a whistle blower. Even though the program is legal he did what he did for the purpose of informing the American public. When you grab 1000's of documents like Snowden and a 1/4 million like Manning your exposing all kinds of things for no real purpose and doing damage to the country. When you stop trying to right a wrong you crossed the line.

These programs are subjected to regular court review every 90 days that why these programs appear to last forever.

Valid point. Who plays the 'devils advocate' at these reviews? True it is the Federal Circuit Court of DC that sites on the FISA bench. This sounds more like a Grand Jury that has voted to indict a Ham Sandwich. A poor analogy, but after working on spreadsheets all damn morning it's all I got.......

 

[Marauder06]

Traitor. Attention whore. Sellout. Take your pick, they're pretty much all the same as far as I'm concerned.

When you're a low-level analyst, you don't get to pick and choose what "should" be classified, you follow the rules. If something is going on that is so conspicuously illegal, immoral, or unethical that it needs to be shut down, there are appropriate channels for that, starting with your local intel oversight officer and going all the way up to your member of Congress. If after all of that no action is taken, then MAYBE, MAYBE I can see going public.

But normally "leakers" don't do that. Most of the time they're disgruntled with the system and looking for revenge. That was the case with Manning, and I'm not going to be surprised when it comes out to be the case here as well. Anyone wonder why this guy bounced around from job to job? Sounds a lot to me like everyone knew this guy was a dirtbag but no one was willing to pull the trigger and get him out of the IC (again, like Manning). This guy saw an opportunity to get back at the system and to make himself famous in the process and he took it, at our expense. He's no hero.

 

[DA SWO]

your post

Agree for the most part, but I am losing my confidence in the oversight process.

That may need to get improved.

 

[Scotth]

Saw this linked today and it brings perspective to the issue of all those members of congress who are shocked by this disclosure.


http://yahoo.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm

Not to mention all the other stories out thereabout both public and private data collection to plead ignorance is a hard pill to swallow. I went to an Oracle Database Administration course back in '07 or '08. There was a guy that worked at OnStar and he told me his company back then was gathering 4 terabytes of data per day on peoples driving habits.

I don't like it but nothing is going to change until congress gets off their ass because the courts have already spoken on the issue. Congress gave the power and it's their job to rein it in.

 

[Dame]

So much of this has been out there for so long, maybe it's time for the government to drop its own "reasonable expectation" of privacy.

Now please excuse me while TSA inspects my "baggage."

ETA:

Saw this linked today and it brings perspective to the issue of all those members of congress who are shocked by this disclosure.

Not to mention all the other stories out thereabout both public and private data collection to plead ignorance is a hard pill to swallow. I went to an Oracle Database Administration course back in '07 or '08. There was a guy that worked at OnStar and he told me his company back then was gathering 4 terabytes of data per day on peoples driving habits.


I don't like it but nothing is going to change until congress gets off their ass because the courts have already spoken on the issue. Congress gave the power and it's their job to rein it in.

Most people just don't pay attention.