Really struggling with what to think of the NSA/phone story

[Brill]

...are we more upset at the treason...

Yes. I pretty much blew off the rest of your post especially the garbage about "surveillance", which according to Webster is "close watch kept over someone or something (as by a dectective)" and then you threw in the "spying", which per Webster is "to watch secretly usually for hostile purposes" and I just stopped reading because I got annoyed.

Sorry folks but unless you know the rules, legal protections, and established precedence, this "argument" is futile. (Why don't we discuss nuclear physics instead?) Shit is legal whether you like it or not. Upset? Hit the ballot box and effect change via the democratic process, which fully supports the program that fuck face disclosed. Please keep in mind that the briefing on Guardian carried the TS//NF classification and had the SI caveat. Manning "only" gave up shit on SIPR that was "just" S//NF and they're talking life in Kansas.

This shithead deserves death IMO.

 

[AWP]

Like it or not, we've spied on our own people going back to the 40's; most of it was legal. Probably. Maybe.

Regardless, to wake up and "OMG" over this is to be about 60 years behind the curve.

I'm far, far, far more concerned that this TRAITOR took TS documents and gave to them to the world at large. He was smart and covered with ass with "They are coming for me" which means he'll never see the death penalty. If he stays out of the US long enough he can more or less count on a nice life if he plays his cards right. I have to wonder what a fella must do for the death penalty in America anymore...we've become a Red, White, and Blue Waffle where punishment is concerned.

Look, the Fourth Amendment "ain't what it used to be" and for those of you just joining the party, Welcome.

 

[nobodythank you]

Yes. I pretty much blew off the rest of your post especially the garbage about "surveillance", which according to Webster is "close watch kept over someone or something (as by a dectective)" and then you threw in the "spying", which per Webster is "to watch secretly usually for hostile purposes" and I just stopped reading because I got annoyed.

Sorry folks but unless you know the rules, legal protections, and established precedence, this "argument" is futile. (Why don't we discuss nuclear physics instead?) Shit is legal whether you like it or not. Upset? Hit the ballot box and effect change via the democratic process, which fully supports the program that fuck face disclosed. Please keep in mind that the briefing on Guardian carried the TS//NF classification and had the SI caveat. Manning "only" gave up shit on SIPR that was "just" S//NF and they're talking life in Kansas.

This shithead deserves death IMO.

So I got my verbiage mixed up when writing. I didn't realize this was for a grade Professor. Before running off at the mouth with what you *think* is or is not legal... try learning some communications skills. Interpersonal Type. 1 Each.
Last I checked, your SOTA credentials don't extend to legal advice or interpretations. Your arm chair quarterbacking not withstanding, you are entitled to your opinion. Misinformed as it may be. However, since I annoy you I won't bother to point out the ways in which you are misinformed. I will say that what you claim is legal is not, and it has to hold up to being challenged in court. Otherwise it is always subject to being changed. Now crawl back into your arm chair, use the obvious brains and analytic powers I have seen you flex in other posts, and learn how to carry on a conversation without insulting anyone.

I spy something surveillance-y.

 

[DA SWO]

My Resident JAG thinks they may have over extended a bit. Hopefully Congress will make the FISA Court release it's reasoning (but I won't hold my breath).

 

[Kraut783]

People get upset when the government goes too far, but like the Boston attack, people were upset at the government (FBI) when their initial investigation did not go far enough in 2011.....you can't win with this topic.

There are valued points to all sides I have seen on this forum.....we'll have to see how this shakes out.

 

[Brill]

So I got my verbiage mixed up when writing. I didn't realize this was for a grade Professor. Before running off at the mouth with what you *think* is or is not legal... try learning some communications skills. Interpersonal Type. 1 Each.
Last I checked, your SOTA credentials don't extend to legal advice or interpretations. Your arm chair quarterbacking not withstanding, you are entitled to your opinion. Misinformed as it may be. However, since I annoy you I won't bother to point out the ways in which you are misinformed. I will say that what you claim is legal is not, and it has to hold up to being challenged in court. Otherwise it is always subject to being changed. Now crawl back into your arm chair, use the obvious brains and analytic powers I have seen you flex in other posts, and learn how to carry on a conversation without insulting anyone.

I spy something surveillance-y.

You presume too much. I don't have an arm chair.

Please enlighten me how I am misinformed. I may actually learn something!

 

[MilkTruckCoPilot]

He's a POS plain and simple, fry his ass.

 

[SpongeBob*24]

"No shit, there I was armed with a red stapler and surrounded by emails..."

CONCUR.....and DONE!!!!!

:die:

 

[Marine0311]

This thread needs to be brought back to the subject/issue at hand rather than name calling.

We the S/S community are better than that.

/end.

 

[DA SWO]

Problem is Intel often has somethig perishable associated with it, the data, method of collection, source.

Giving details could derail another program; but that same level of secrecy allows the misuse of assets.

I still hope the program can be reined in without too much Congressional interference.

 

[AngelsSix]

Why is some skinny white guy who is a worthless jerk getting any attention? Because the American people have become a bunch of drama queens.
This isn't about the government reading your email, this is about mister-no-one-pays-attention-to-me-and-I-want-to-be-relevant-but-I-know-I-am-not.

 

[Centermass]

 

[Scotth]

The biggest lesson learned for me in this whole thing? Now I know why the government has such a huge deficit. It is ridiculous what they paid that guy as a contractor. Not knowing labor markets in Washington and not knowing government contracting so maybe I'm naive. Also let me preface my future comments by saying government contracting in a foreign country is a completely different animal IMHO especially when it comes to pay.

We have basically a permanent government position that the government is paying some guy $122k a year plus what ever Booz's cut is for filling the position. The guy worked 9 to 5 and went home every night. The guy couldn't get a job in the Minnesota IT market making even 1/2 of what he was making with Booz. A couple community college coarses and a couple years of experience wouldn't get him beyond entry level administration or help desk at best making maybe 40-45k a year.

That's what I find shocking about this whole thing. Nobody even knows how many government contractors are employed so how will we ever know how much money gets wasted a year on over inflated compensation and duplication of duties. People complain about the teacher, with a 4 year degree, making 40k as being over compensated.

 

[Teufel]

The biggest lesson learned for me in this whole thing? Now I know why the government has such a huge deficit. It is ridiculous what they paid that guy as a contractor. Not knowing labor markets in Washington and not knowing government contracting so maybe I'm naive. Also let me preface my future comments by saying government contracting in a foreign country is a completely different animal IMHO especially when it comes to pay.

We have basically a permanent government position that the government is paying some guy $122k a year plus what ever Booz's cut is for filling the position. The guy worked 9 to 5 and went home every night. The guy couldn't get a job in the Minnesota IT market making even 1/2 of what he was making with Booz. A couple community college coarses and a couple years of experience wouldn't get him beyond entry level administration or help desk at best making maybe 40-45k a year.

That's what I find shocking about this whole thing.

Here's my question. It seems this guy was a high school drop out, got his GED, unsuccessfully tried out for the Special Forces, and got a job doing information assurance (ironic) with the NSA. He was there for three months as a Booz Allen contractor and was given all sorts of access to stuff. Is anyone else bothered by how underqualified this guy seems for that job and how quickly this dick bag was given access to our nation's secrets? It seemed like it took an act of congress for me to get my clearance but this guy waltzes in off of a failed interview at McDonalds into a 200,000 dollar job as the IA manager (i.e. the guy who pesters everyone to turn in their Information Assurance online training certificates and maintains a roster of said certificates) for a top secret facility????

 

[Scotth]

Well he worked for the CIA for a couple years and had the secret clearance in hand. Beyond that I completely agree with you Teufel.

 

[JBS]

The biggest lesson learned for me in this whole thing? Now I know why the government has such a huge deficit. It is ridiculous what they paid that guy as a contractor. Not knowing labor markets in Washington and not knowing government contracting so maybe I'm naive. Also let me preface my future comments by saying government contracting in a foreign country is a completely different animal IMHO especially when it comes to pay.

We have basically a permanent government position that the government is paying some guy $122k a year plus what ever Booz's cut is for filling the position. The guy worked 9 to 5 and went home every night. The guy couldn't get a job in the Minnesota IT market making even 1/2 of what he was making with Booz. A couple community college coarses and a couple years of experience wouldn't get him beyond entry level administration or help desk at best making maybe 40-45k a year.

That's what I find shocking about this whole thing. Nobody even knows how many government contractors are employed so how will we ever know how much money gets wasted a year on over inflated compensation and duplication of duties. People complain about the teacher, with a 4 year degree, making 40k as being over compensated.

Concerned about out of control spending? Moving to the Right a bit there, Scott. There is hope for you yet.

Why is some skinny white guy who is a worthless jerk getting any attention? Because the American people have become a bunch of drama queens.
This isn't about the government reading your email, this is about mister-no-one-pays-attention-to-me-and-I-want-to-be-relevant-but-I-know-I-am-not.

Sorry, boss. For me it's about a whole shitload more than that. There was a time when a President resigned in shame and for sending his yes-men to illegally record the conversations of reporters and abusing the power of his office. Today, besides the 732 different scandals going on, the IRS being used to repress political opposition, we have an out-of-control domestic security apparatus that's about 8 times larger than it should be, gathering data on millions of Verizon customers, and working with Google and Yahoo to (not) read your private email. Tomorrow, the violation of privacy will be even more egregious.

If there is a single realization that needs to hit the American people, it is that liberty is lost by the tiniest increments, one small infringement at a time.

 

[nobodythank you]

The guy worked 9 to 5 and went home every night. The guy couldn't get a job in the Minnesota IT market making even 1/2 of what he was making with Booz. A couple community college coarses and a couple years of experience wouldn't get him beyond entry level administration or help desk at best making maybe 40-45k a year.

Don't forget being assigned an on call rotation, and stuck in his position for at least 2-3 years.

 

[JBS]

Like it or not, we've spied on our own people going back to the 40's; most of it was legal. Probably. Maybe.

Regardless, to wake up and "OMG" over this is to be about 60 years behind the curve.

..[snip]...

Look, the Fourth Amendment "ain't what it used to be" and for those of you just joining the party, Welcome.

Many people have talked about this sort of thing for years, albeit without many of the facts to fill in the whole picture. Until the "whistleblowers" come forward, it's all conspiracy theory. Then the leaks come and the conversation becomes some variation of "it's not as bad as they said it was", or "it's worse".

To me, the most troubling thing about this entire topic is that a huge percentage of the American population absolutely does not care if they have zero privacy. There's a total disconnect and a lack of appreciation for what privacy really is and what it's value is.

True privacy is a form of liberty. If you have a personal conversation with your wife/girlfriend/closest friend, you will speak and communicate with a total freedom of expression. Now, if I walk in, pull up a bar stool, and sit down smack dab in front of you while you have your personal chat and scratch my beard as you attempt to recover your train of thought, then assuming you don't immediately throw me out of your house, you are NOT going to have the same conversation as if you were still in "private". That incursion in restricting your privacy is also a restriction on your freedom of expression. The reason is simple. People speak differently in private than they ever would in public. Also, this false argument that "if you don't have anything to hide, then you shouldn't care" is total bullshit. Of COURSE we have things to hide. We hide things from each other all the time. Anybody want to post just exactly how many times they jerked off this week, or what their true opinion is of their boss / employee / neighbor / coworker? Anybody here want to volunteer to post their entire Google search history for the past 6 months on this forum in General Discussion ? We're human. We have secrets, and personal habits and behaviors that we prefer to keep compartmentalized.

There might be the rare saint that has genuinely never looked for how to clear their browsing history, but for the rest of us who have picked their nose or applied the 3 second rule to a pretzel because no one was looking, anyone with some self respect wants privacy.

 

[Scotth]

Concerned about out of control spending? Moving to the Right a bit there, Scott. There is hope for you yet.

Dammit, here I thought I was moving you my way.

 

[Kraut783]

The world is changing.....and shrinking. Technology is making soooo many things possible. Think about this, there are so many ways to make overseas contact/calls now, a lot that we cannot collect on. THAT scares me in my business.

Because no matter what we bitch about....the next time there is a massive loss of life, those same people who are complaining about lack of privacy will be complaining that the govt did nothing to protect them. You can't have it both ways.

I have no problems with the govt being curtailed in this new world of technology, as long as we, the citizens, understand when something goes BOOM...shit happens. Stay strong and carry on.