Retention and Recruitment Crisis

[Gunz]

I rappelled in my younger days, the first few times off the tower and the 300-foot cliff at JOTC Panama; and a number of times for fun off an old fire-training tower in NC. But I wouldn't want to jump out of an airplane. I'd probably puke on the way up just thinking about it. Getting shot at semi-regularly and trying not to step on toe-poppers and tripwires was scary enough for me. No sense adding altitude to maximize the thrill.

 

[Devildoc]

Why give them rank at all? Let them serve as .civ in both peacetime and downrange.

Who is "them"? What specialties or jobs should be pulled out of the military, and how would they integrate as .civ?

 

[Marauder06]

Who is "them"? What specialties or jobs should be pulled out of the military, and how would they integrate as .civ?

I was responding to the following statement, which was made in the post before mine:

Germany makes certain technical fields ART like, you are Civil Service until mobilized for a deployment then you have Military rank. Something like this would allow higher pay until needed for a deployed when your Reserve rank would kick in.
Not perfect, but no solution ever is.

If we don't need them in uniform during peacetime, why do we need them in uniform during the war? We had oodles of contractors doing maintenance and the like for us downrange. Let them concentrate on doing that, vs. trying to do that AND do .mil stuff.

 

[Devildoc]

I was responding to the following statement, which was made in the post before mine:


If we don't need them in uniform during peacetime, why do we need them in uniform during the war? We had oodles of contractors doing maintenance and the like for us downrange. Let them concentrate on doing that, vs. trying to do that AND do .mil stuff.

I know which thread you were responding to; I think the second half of your thread was some of clarity I was looking for.

I would be curious to see how much of the combat arms goes unfilled or has open billets vs the 'support' and 'staff' jobs. Then, see what percentage of the 'support/staff' is occupied by contractors or civil service, and what those jobs are. I am all for 'right-sizing' the military, especially in light of recruiting and retention woes. I know CMC and the CNO have been very vocal about thinking outside of the box for both; the navy has an issue filling sea billets, so they are reorganizing for those who pursue more sea time.

 

[Deleted member 2517]

I never wanted to go to JM.

I may be in the minority here, but jumping was my least favorite military activity. I had maybe one really great jump out of like 35. I tried to get out of it whenever possible.

Unfortunately it’s a huge career progression requirement for us. I also hate jumping. I hold out hope freefall is better, but I doubt it.

 

[Deleted member 2517]

I love being airborne, for the very specific period of time from the roughly 3 seconds after the chute opens and I know I don't need to pull a reserve, until the 2 seconds before landing when I make sure my knees are bent.

Other than that, I hate it. I'd rather fast rope out of an osprey than do a static line jump. Something about that feels more "in my control" than jumping.

---

Back to the topic of recruiting, I'm really worried about the gap the military might start to see when it comes to the more technical fields such as cyber and IT.

We can't pay those guys/gals anything close to what the outside does, and (to stereotype a bit) that's not exactly a career field people known to be the "traditional ideal of soldier" fitness/temperament seems to go.

I'm not sure of what the fix is.

You fucking take that bit about the Osprey back right now or I’m calling behavioral health, because you’re obviously suicidal.

 

[amlove21]

You fucking take that bit about the Osprey back right now or I’m calling behavioral health, because you’re obviously suicidal.

I already called the police.

 

[AWP]

Ordinarily I can't stand a fucking rat, but sometimes you just have to snitch.

 

[Cookie_]

Okay, I'm being hyperbolic about the osprey, but only the tiniest bit!

I think the reactions from @amlove21 and @DasBoot should make it clear that for me to even debate the two means I loathe jumping.

 

[DA SWO]

Why give them rank at all? Let them serve as .civ in both peacetime and downrange.

Hague convention stuff and work hours.
I can't work civilians as hard as I can Military.
I can quit as a civilian, not that easy as an activated Reservist.
I walked off a job in Japan over safety issues, couldn't have done that as a Reservist.

 

[ThunderHorse]

I was responding to the following statement, which was made in the post before mine:


If we don't need them in uniform during peacetime, why do we need them in uniform during the war? We had oodles of contractors doing maintenance and the like for us downrange. Let them concentrate on doing that, vs. trying to do that AND do .mil stuff.

Oodles of contractors that get TS-SCI that wouldn't pass a background check...err see Snowden. That already exist.

Less contractors for me, thanks!

 

[AWP]

Oodles of contractors that get TS-SCI that wouldn't pass a background check...err see Snowden. That already exist.

The same can be said for civilians and military alike. The same system investigates us all.

 

[GOTWA]

Oodles of contractors that get TS-SCI that wouldn't pass a background check...err see Snowden. That already exist.

Huh?

 

[Marauder06]

For every Snowden there is a Manning. I don’t think properly-vetted contractors are inherently any less-trustworthy than .mil types, and they may be cheaper in the long run.

 

[JedisonsDad]

Hot take. I think @amlove21 is actually Chief Colon-Lopez.

“Beards don’t help us be more lethal.”

I disagree. Do beards make us more lethal? Not necessarily. Do they make us safer? Possibly. Currently, a large portion of our population is running around with longer hair and facial hair. Being able to more closely resemble the people we serve allows us to be less of a target. Spend ten minutes in an airport, and you can tell exactly who is military.

Additionally, when you have some units or personnel running around with relaxed grooming standards, it now draws them out as different, and puts them on the radar. This is only amplified while deployed if they are known as military but now have non regulation grooming. What makes them special? What are they doing that justifies the hair and beard?

Beards in the Military Don't Help with 'Kicking the Enemy's Ass,' Top Enlisted Adviser Says

 

[Deleted member 2517]

Hot take. I think @amlove21 is actually Chief Colon-Lopez.

“Beards don’t help us be more lethal.”

I disagree. Do beards make us more lethal? Not necessarily. Do they make us safer? Possibly. Currently, a large portion of our population is running around with longer hair and facial hair. Being able to more closely resemble the people we serve allows us to be less of a target. Spend ten minutes in an airport, and you can tell exactly who is military.

Additionally, when you have some units or personnel running around with relaxed grooming standards, it now draws them out as different, and puts them on the radar. This is only amplified while deployed if they are known as military but now have non regulation grooming. What makes them special? What are they doing that justifies the hair and beard?

Beards in the Military Don't Help with 'Kicking the Enemy's Ass,' Top Enlisted Adviser Says

SEAC really said “fuck your religion” huh?

That’s a bold move cotton, let’s see how it affects morale.

Colon-Lopez also said he "was opposed to the religion exemption for beards" because there should be an "expectation of people to put their personality aside for the betterment of the team."

 

[Devildoc]

Put your personality aside vis-a-vis faith/religion? Really?? Damn. Talk about offensive and pissing off a segment of not only your men and women in uniform but potential enlistees.

 

[Topkick]

SEAC really said “fuck your religion” huh?

That’s a bold move cotton, let’s see how it affects morale.

Yeah, the exemptions were not there in the past and we were fine. But, the toothpaste has left the tube on that issue and I don't think you can put it back in. Especially with recruiting woes. The population has changed and probably gotta change with it.

 

[Devildoc]

Yeah, the exemptions were not there in the past and we were fine. But, the toothpaste has left the tube on that issue and I don't think you can put it back in. Especially with recruiting woes. The population has changed and probably gotta change with it.

I am mildly curious as to how many people might have joined at any time in the past but decided not to because of no exemptions. I would imagine a very small number, maybe even insignificant. Rightly or wrongly the court opened Pandora's Box on this, so it's not going to go away.

I think the bigger issue of what he implied was linking personality to religion. That tells me he really doesn't value me or what I can bring to 'the team' as long as I keep my mouth shut and look like him.

 

[AWP]

Allowing beards neither increases nor decreases our lethality, so what is he going on about?