Was that photo taken on the poop deck?
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Retention and Recruitment Crisis
- Thread starter RackMaster
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I'm gonna go out on a limb and say everyone that wasn't in the Navy thought the same exact thing.
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Moved from the dot-thread.
To add… Of all of the reasons I have seen for recruiting being at a record low, gays and trans being open in the military, does not even make the top 10.
I have witnessed heterosexual Marines and Navy dudes do some of the gayest shit I’ve ever seen in my life; most of them couldn’t give a fuck what the person next to them want to dress as, as long as that person does the job they’re supposed to be trained to do.
Between the Bud Light BS, (they weren’t changing their marketing to just trans people by the way) and now this story (Navy is simply targeting a group of people who have never been actively recruited before) I am somewhat shocked at the “manly men“ who appear to be so threatened by someone else’s sexual orientation.
Wanna know a secret? The “manly man“ aren’t breaking down the recruiters doors these days to join up, if they were, do you think this would even be a discussion?
If they were, do you think Navy would have even put that video out?
Topkick
Verified Military
You don't think wokeness is a big part of the recruiting woes? They may be ok with serving alongside, but I don't think people want that stuff forced on them. Just like some don't want it on their beer can.
I'm an old soldier and shit don't make sense to me. However, I'm still in the game with my son. Wokeness is a problem.
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At 61 years old I have seen it go from if you told you were out. To don't ask, don't tell. To whatever the flavor of the day is today.
This is just opinion mind you, as I read and thought on both posts qouted.
I grew up with the Navy, was going to go Navy at one time. Saw all sorts of weird shit growing up as a dependent. Then enlisting at 17 years old. Where it didn't really matter as long as you did your job. Knew several dudes at Ft. Detrick who were even pretty open about it, in the 80's. However, they knew their jobs, passed their SQT's and AFPT's. All members of a team fighting the war on bio-weapons.
At one time years ago, I was a bigot and, a racist piece of shit. Because I let others dictate how I looked at the world and, acted towards it. It ended up nearly costing my life. It did cost my former fiance's life. Which can never be returned.
I learned after much hell and bullshit. That I needed to change or die. So for my own opinion is shouldn't matter who is what. Because as a Combat Medic, when you come across a casualty does it really even matter.
Now as to "wokeness" in general just to change the country. Into something that goes against the constitution. Well that shit can go way the fuck away from here!
Just my .02
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top, I don’t know what to think or believe anymore. I’m at a point where I don’t trust anything I read online, I form more of my opinions based on conversations I have on this forum than anything the main stream media has to offer me.
I’m not saying “woke“ isn’t an issue in the military, active duty members have stated on this very forum that it is, I just question whether it or not it is the big issue preventing kids from enlisting.
Personally, I think it has more to do with the wasted wars of the past couple of decades than anything else. Politicians are accountable for that, so why not instead push stories touting and projecting a different narrative.
Topkick
Verified Military
People are more accepting now than I am.
I believe a man can't be a woman and a woman can't be a man. I don't care what anyone else thinks I should think. I'm not a homophobe, because I don't care who you screw. Young people are more accepting but they don't want sexual innuendo, anti american rhetoric, and rewritten history thrown in their face and it shouldn't be.GI's wanna drag...fine, go off post and drag on your off time. A lot of young men still just want to join the military to kill bad guys and break their shit.
I believe a man can't be a woman and a woman can't be a man. I don't care what anyone else thinks I should think. I'm not a homophobe, because I don't care who you screw. Young people are more accepting but they don't want sexual innuendo, anti american rhetoric, and rewritten history thrown in their face and it shouldn't be.GI's wanna drag...fine, go off post and drag on your off time. A lot of young men still just want to join the military to kill bad guys and break their shit.
Be who you belive you are, just don't try convince me it is true. When I know it it is not the truth.
TLDR20
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I think the military needs to recruit lots of young men and women. The ones that want to join to shoot people and kill things will still join. The same type of people have been doing it for millennia. We also needs lots of other people to join. The military isn’t trying to recruit trans people, they are trying to appear inclusive so that young 18-20 year olds feel like they are part of a modern workforce. No one is trying to recruit the people that are most upset about these campaigns.
Topkick
Verified Military
I think most young people are ok with this. But I see & hear first hand how much time is being wasted on DEI. It forces people out and keeps people away.
Blizzard
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I'm sure we've all seen some pretty "gay" shit. Put a bunch of young guys together for a long enough period of time and the level of stupidity is only limited by the imagination of those there at the moment. But, that's much different than actively and openly pursuing a lifestyle.
Now, the libertarian in me, generally doesn't care that much about what others do, so long as it doesn't impact me. I just don't. At the same time, don't expect to affirm your craziness. And , to me, that's the crossroads and where I take exception to things like I posted. This isn't the same as being gay. It's an entirely different animal. It's not only asking, but demanding broader acceptance and affirmation, of what I, frankly, view as a mental illness (gender dysphoria/gender identity disorder...and especially, rapid onset gender dysphoria, which is nearly a uniquely American issue).
To me, that's the problem. And to be fair, this affirmation isn't just a Navy problem, it's not just a military problem, it's a problem with our current culture. This wasn't even a controversial viewpoint 10 - 15 years ago and for most it still really isn't.
OK, that's enough "serious" discussion for me tonight.
100% agree with this. The dudes/dudettes that still wanna get after it and be combat types seem to still be coming.
The kids coming in on the support side of the house are increasingly viewing the military as "mostly a paid technical college".
I see (increasingly) with commo/intel kids.
They enlist, get the mos and clearances, then once they have a civilian job request release, fail height/weight or pt tests, or just simply stop showing up to drill while state wastes time outprocessing them for AWOL.
This hits even harder on the non technical sides, because nobody gets any higher level job outcomes from being an initial entry cook or truck driver.
Every single lower enlisted I've gotten in the past 2/3 years has been purely for health care or college.
I've posted several times how Air Force comm has screwed itself mishandling their first term enlistees, especially the IT folks. Then it turns around and blames contracting companies for taking their best airmen. No, your policies drove them to the door.
Devildoc
Verified Military
I see your point and not entirely sure I agree, though it's 0737 and with some caffeine and thought I might. This particular add isn't targeting a generally undertargeted population. It's very specific in it's design. But whether yes or no on that perspective, here's my bigger issue: the entire US military is struggling to recruit, and instead of attempting to recruit anyone and everyone, the Navy puts out an ad that will alienate a very high proportion of potential recruits. I know it's a 'N' of 1, but my son has been on the fence about joining either the guard or reserves, and this particular ad has pushed him away. I did not influence that.
With the Bud Light fallout it appears that the Navy was tone deaf, unless they think they have a different spin on the message. It seems to me that if they want to be inclusive of everyone they could have found a better way to do it.
I agree that the people who want to shoot people in the face, ride tanks, and do combat shit will still join.
@Ooh-Rah , I agree, I have seen Marines and Sailors be both homophobic and homoerotic in the same 10 seconds. It's the weirdest culture. To your question, "If they were, do you think Navy would have even put that video out?", my question in response would be, did you expect the fallout from Bud Light to be what it was? An ad like that will alienate a large percentage of men and women who might be on the fence.
I am not sure anyone is "threatened" by it so much as having the perception that it is further erosion (encroachment?) of cultural norms, per @Blizzard and @Topkick . I certainly do not feel threatened. I am frustrated. One of the main reasons I am so frustrated by it is we (the people who have been in the navy) have fought the freaking jokes forever (see @ThunderHorse ). Ads like this do nothing to help.
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Like just about everything on the internet these days, this was blown completely out of proportion. Bud Lite sent Mulvaney some personalized beer cans to use on their instagram account (paid sponsorship) as part of an internet contest to win $15k from Bud Lite for promoting the brand on Instagram. But because the internet is going to … internet, you’d think Bud Lite had held a press conference presenting and announcing their new spokesperson and were immediately pulling all ads from sports and anything else that might be considered manly.
This campaign was intended to be just one more group of the population to be marketed to (similar to the Navy ad) but we live in a world of immediate outrage, where most people cannot even articulate what they are actually outraged about; especially when you show them facts…which these days it seems no one is interested in (facts) as they are mostly referred to as ‘fake news’.
Topkick
Verified Military
Right?
The maintream media will tell you that wokeness is not a problem. Of course, military leaders who drive policy will not admit that their policies actually suck. My views are based on what I hear from those I know that are currently in the military or recently separated. They can't openly express while in their element.
I think you have to take cultural norms into account. Here in the midwest, which is usually a large portion of the military, many folks see wokeness as degradation of our culture rather than progression.
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Devildoc
Verified Military
The internet is a tool for good and evil for sure, especially social media. Blown out of proportion, probably. But whether it was or was not the results are what they are. We'll know soon enough about the navy: the proportion of applicants targeted will go up or not.
My issue is not with getting feet into the door, my issue is an ad that targets such a niche minority that will--it will--alienate a larger population. This is already blowing up on social media, and people wag fingers and say "facts", but it doesn't change the outcome. I think the navy thinks this ad will "attract youth to the navy," (per headline) but I think they are misreading the landscape of potential recruiting targets.
Topkick
Verified Military
I think most people just want corporations, sports, etc. to do what they do and stay out of politics. Why should a beer company express their support on any social or political issues? STFU and make good beer. If they don't show a social or political slant, they are actually being most inclusive.
