Retention and Recruitment Crisis

[Cookie_]

I think the navy thinks this ad will "attract youth to the navy," (per headline) but I think they are misreading the landscape of potential recruiting targets.

I think that's really the dichotomy with this issue.

This ad targets the broader younger population who might be more drawn in by the "softer" approachs of Navy drag and army "Emma two moms" type ads, but it might also push away some of the traditional recruiting base.

Problem is that traditional recruiting base is getting smaller, ad campaigns or not. The services seem to be hedging bets on casting a wider net for potential recruits from this younger generation than trying to get what they have for the past X number of years.

It's too early to judge whether stuff like this helps with recruitment or just makes it worse.

 

[AWP]

Everyone shocked and outraged by this must have forgotten when we started allowing drone operators to claim PTSD.

I support any woman who has the balls to serve her country and not cry in her chardonnay because she watched people die on TV. You pushed a button and 12,000 miles away someone died? Sack up, Nancy, sack up. I don't need to tell you to grow a pair...

 

[Gunz]

Young people aren't joining the military today because they don't have to join the military. And the ones who want to kick doors and pull triggers aren't flocking to recruiters in record numbers because we're not shooting at anybody right now. And a good many trigger-puller door-kickers aren't reenlisting because they're bored as shit not shooting at anybody.

And some others are getting out because they're sick of being force-fed a woke agenda.

Not to mention, there are a lot of young people who think the military's for suckers. They think everybody in the military is either too stupid to get a real job or cannon fodder waiting to happen. And why should they serve a country that fails to give them free everything? It ain't about giving, it's about getting. It's about whining so much that the government apologizes to you and bends over backwards to include you, and gives you free shit to shut you up.

This is the age of the individual, not the team.

 

[“The Old Man”]

Young people aren't joining the military today because they don't have to join the military. And the ones who want to kick doors and pull triggers aren't flocking to recruiters in record numbers because we're not shooting at anybody right now. And a good many trigger-puller door-kickers aren't reenlisting because they're bored as shit not shooting at anybody.

And some others are getting out because they're sick of being force-fed a woke agenda.

Not to mention, there are a lot of young people who think the military's for suckers. They think everybody in the military is either too stupid to get a real job or cannon fodder waiting to happen. And why should they serve a country that fails to give them free everything? It ain't about giving, it's about getting. It's about whining so much that the government apologizes to you and bends over backwards to include you, and gives you free shit to shut you up.

This is the age of the individual, not the team.

Truest statement in this entire thread.

 

[Topkick]

Not to mention, there are a lot of young people who think the military's for suckers. They think everybody in the military is either too stupid to get a real job

This is true. We are just a bunch of losers until they need us. The attitude from the general population shocked me after 9-11.
After serving in mostly peacetime when people frowned on us, all of sudden I couldn't buy my own meal or a drink at a bar. I think maybe we've cycled back around.

 

[Gunz]

This is true. We are just a bunch of losers until they need us. The attitude from the general population shocked me after 9-11.
After serving in mostly peacetime when people frowned on us, all of sudden I couldn't buy my own meal or a drink at a bar. I think maybe we've cycled back around.

I saw it myself, Top. They love us when they’re scared…but it doesn’t take long to wear off.

 

[Topkick]

I saw it myself, Top. They love us when they’re scared…but it doesn’t take long to wear off.

Brother, its a disgrace the way Vietnam veterans were treated. You are a national treasure in my view. I make it point to tell every one I see wearing a hat that I appreciate what they did for their country and for us future combat vets.

 

[GOTWA]

I suppose this could warrant its own thread, but felt it was relevant here. CSM Michael R. Weimer is taking over as the Army CSM starting in August. I'm hoping this has an extreme impact because the current CSM is a complete trashcan. He's never served in the conventional Army so perhaps he brings the SOF mindset and starts a culture change. IMO, the people are leaving the military because it's not a two way street. While I believe the Military doesn't exist to serve the people, it does require investment. Invest in schooling, training, and overall betterment. Perhaps the way we engage with people needs to change as well. Treat people like adults and entrust in them more responsibilities. I don't believe the entire Army should be 75th RR, but there is a huge disparity in the amount of training and effectiveness of the conventional forces when compared to SOF. Those conventional forces are going to find themselves in a bad way if/when we get into a peer to peer engagement.

Side note, I believe the USMC is full of leaders that take stupid and ratchet it x10, but god damn can they make warfighters. The level of leadership and effectiveness within their combat elements is far superior when compared to their Army rank equivalent. As an Army guy, I stand by that statement.

 

[BloodStripe]

Moved from the dot-thread.


To add… Of all of the reasons I have seen for recruiting being at a record low, gays and trans being open in the military, does not even make the top 10.

I have witnessed heterosexual Marines and Navy dudes do some of the gayest shit I’ve ever seen in my life; most of them couldn’t give a fuck what the person next to them want to dress as, as long as that person does the job they’re supposed to be trained to do.

Between the Bud Light BS, (they weren’t changing their marketing to just trans people by the way) and now this story (Navy is simply targeting a group of people who have never been actively recruited before) I am somewhat shocked at the “manly men“ who appear to be so threatened by someone else’s sexual orientation.

Wanna know a secret? The “manly man“ aren’t breaking down the recruiters doors these days to join up, if they were, do you think this would even be a discussion?

If they were, do you think Navy would have even put that video out?

What happens in Thailand stays in Thailand.

 

[Devildoc]

I suppose this could warrant its own thread, but felt it was relevant here. CSM Michael R. Weimer is taking over as the Army CSM starting in August. I'm hoping this has an extreme impact because the current CSM is a complete trashcan. He's never served in the conventional Army so perhaps he brings the SOF mindset and starts a culture change. IMO, the people are leaving the military because it's not a two way street. While I believe the Military doesn't exist to serve the people, it does require investment. Invest in schooling, training, and overall betterment. Perhaps the way we engage with people needs to change as well. Treat people like adults and entrust in them more responsibilities. I don't believe the entire Army should be 75th RR, but there is a huge disparity in the amount of training and effectiveness of the conventional forces when compared to SOF. Those conventional forces are going to find themselves in a bad way if/when we get into a peer to peer engagement.

Side note, I believe the USMC is full of leaders that take stupid and ratchet it x10, but god damn can they make warfighters. The level of leadership and effectiveness within their combat elements is far superior when compared to their Army rank equivalent. As an Army guy, I stand by that statement.

Aside from my experiences with the army when I was in the military, 99% of my experience over the past 10 years has been with special operations-based training or units. So I am biased; not in my assumptions, but my experiences. I imagine not everyone in the army is kitted out in Crye, with JPCs, and M4s with LVPOs based on personal preference. I bring all that up to say, the amount of adulthood and self motivation is very very significant, which you know, and perhaps having senior leadership with that background and experience will help sow those seeds with the rest of the army.

Regarding Marine Corps leaders in a combat environment, I largely agree. I have never served in a Navy unit in combat conditions, so I can't say.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Young people aren't joining the military today because they don't have to join the military. And the ones who want to kick doors and pull triggers aren't flocking to recruiters in record numbers because we're not shooting at anybody right now. And a good many trigger-puller door-kickers aren't reenlisting because they're bored as shit not shooting at anybody.

And some others are getting out because they're sick of being force-fed a woke agenda.

Not to mention, there are a lot of young people who think the military's for suckers. They think everybody in the military is either too stupid to get a real job or cannon fodder waiting to happen. And why should they serve a country that fails to give them free everything? It ain't about giving, it's about getting. It's about whining so much that the government apologizes to you and bends over backwards to include you, and gives you free shit to shut you up.

This is the age of the individual, not the team.

I was called a baby killer over AIM by one of my best friends who went off to a woke institution for College. I was in my 3rd class year at the clown college when that happened, yes I can call it what I want, I wear the ring. VMI was a funny place. Best of Times and Worst of Times all that jazz.

I'm not sure openly touting drag shows while afloat or lgbt chapter library readings will get people into the Navy. The Navy, much like the Air Force is about technical jobs.

The Army and the Marine Corps have less technical jobs than the AF and the USN, but there are many of them. Most people in technical jobs in my experience came from most of the same backgrounds as the trigger pullers, and by that I mean most of us grew up poor. On the officer side it was a little different, the backgrounds of colleagues that I worked with when I was an the SQDRN S-1 was far different than most when I was a PL. Then again that changed when I went to DIVSTAFF, most of those guys came from far more stable households and the like. But I was definitely still dealing with "first time I could buy new shoes" types when I was a PL. That still existed in America circa 2011-2014 when I was at company level.

You guys can think what you want, but flaunting this stuff to recruit an infinitesimally small number of people who might be slightly patriotic or need a way out isn't cutting it. Remember .45% of people alive in the US have served.

______________

But who am I to tell you guys what I think. I'm a historian that believes in preserving tradition (which the Army doesn't do well at). An officer that hated validating time because my CO liked to work late and never release Soldiers. And Also one that believed in unit camaraderie and thinks the Army needs to bring back unit sports when not on work up as your afternoon workout. Today's Army is very transactional, and very much a one way street. Now that isn't to say that I don't think we're still one of the best leadership development centers in the world, but holy shit it could be better than it is and we could run over good people a lot less.

We had some idiot in our league office in a senior position that somehow made double what I did, she was a waste of space and thankfully she self selected and left before she was fired. She hired someone under her that wasn't really qualified for that job, but I can tell you that person tries very hard and wants to be here. And at least on this side of the fence I can tell you finding people that want to be at a job because they believe in what you do is actually very hard and that has tremendous value. And I think the Service today discounts that attribute significantly.

 

[amlove21]

This thread is wild. I’m here for it.

The Overton window is moving very, very quickly. From the active duty side- this is not it, chief. At all.

ETA.

 

[ThunderHorse]

This thread is wild. I’m here for it.

The Overton window is moving very, very quickly. From the active duty side- this is not it, chief. At all.

ETA.

To be frank I'm incredulous that so many in this thread are willing to degrade standards in hopes of attracting people who have no intent to ever join the Service. If a few do, cool, but they were already doing so before we overtly recruited them and started shitting on the majority of who joins.

Again, as you often say. Does this improved our lethality? The answer is no.

 

[Topkick]

To be frank I'm incredulous that so many in this thread are willing to degrade standards

Or, at a minimum, acknowledge the affects on recruiting and retention.

 

[GOTWA]

Time to start recruiting term'd civilians into the ranks to help fill the gaps.

 

[amlove21]

To be frank I'm incredulous that so many in this thread are willing to degrade standards in hopes of attracting people who have no intent to ever join the Service. If a few do, cool, but they were already doing so before we overtly recruited them and started shitting on the majority of who joins.

Again, as you often say. Does this improved our lethality? The answer is no.

Yeah I agree with you wholeheartedly. I don’t know if it’s ‘worth’ expounding on, so I’ll try and be concise. Also, this isn’t referencing anyone here- you all earned whatever opinion you have, I’m not the gatekeeper of righteousness.

Using an active duty service member in official messaging displaying and proudly flaunting their sexual kink as a means to ‘recruit a wider swath’ of candidates isn’t only in poor taste and not tactically sound (in a recruiting sense); it’s antithetical to our shared core values. All services.

Here’s the thing- I don’t want the people enticed by this recruiting initiative to get in. Not inn SOF, not in the military.

I don’t want people to come into the military that want to be a furry, or a drag queen, or dress in dog masks and engage in puppy play or whatever other fringe sexual deviancy they may live in their off time. I want the opposite. I want them to give up large parts of themselves in honor of selfless service to the cause of defending the country and constitution of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic, because they know that their own personal desires and comforts aren’t factored into the military service equation.

I don’t want recruits to ‘feel seen’. I don’t want them to have every little desire validated by their chain. I want them to assimilate to a culture of integrity and live (as much as possible) above reproach and above board in comparison to the regular American public writ large.

But, here we are. We have drag queen story hour, and now SECNAV sponsored recruiting campaigns with a service member in drag. We are not a serious force right now.

 

[Gunz]

Yeah I agree with you wholeheartedly. I don’t know if it’s ‘worth’ expounding on, so I’ll try and be concise. Also, this isn’t referencing anyone here- you all earned whatever opinion you have, I’m not the gatekeeper of righteousness.

Using an active duty service member in official messaging displaying and proudly flaunting their sexual kink as a means to ‘recruit a wider swath’ of candidates isn’t only in poor taste and not tactically sound (in a recruiting sense); it’s antithetical to our shared core values. All services.

Here’s the thing- I don’t want the people enticed by this recruiting initiative to get in. Not inn SOF, not in the military.

I don’t want people to come into the military that want to be a furry, or a drag queen, or dress in dog masks and engage in puppy play or whatever other fringe sexual deviancy they may live in their off time. I want the opposite. I want them to give up large parts of themselves in honor of selfless service to the cause of defending the country and constitution of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic, because they know that their own personal desires and comforts aren’t factored into the military service equation.

I don’t want recruits to ‘feel seen’. I don’t want them to have every little desire validated by their chain. I want them to assimilate to a culture of integrity and live (as much as possible) above reproach and above board in comparison to the regular American public writ large.

But, here we are. We have drag queen story hour, and now SECNAV sponsored recruiting campaigns with a service member in drag. We are not a serious force right now.

This post ought to be etched in stone at the gates of the Pentagon.

 

[amlove21]

This post ought to be etched in stone at the gates of the Pentagon.

Coming from you, and having @Johca agree, means something. I appreciate it, Gunz.

 

[Raptor]

Personally, I think it has more to do with the wasted wars of the past couple of decades than anything else. Politicians are accountable for that, so why not instead push stories touting and projecting a different narrative.

As someone who's probably considered part of the target audience (college-aged adult) for the ads they put out, this would be the biggest (medical issues aside) negative for me. Eye-roll worthy ads and some of the other things they do that I don't necessarily agree with (though I do seem to be less negative towards some of them than most on this board) don't change my desire to serve Americans. As it stands, though, in some ways I feel that over the past decade or so, being a nurse or firefighter or some other job that serves the public at large would be serving my fellow countrymen more than joining up. That actually would would steer me towards something else. To be clear, I'm not trying to diminish the service or sacrifices of anyone who has joined recently (or ever), but with the hindsight of how Afghanistan ended and how much contempt the current administration seems to have for its citizens, its easy for me to imagine an alternate reality where I would be looking elsewhere even if the military was an option for me.

 

[Devildoc]

As someone who's probably considered part of the target audience (college-aged adult) for the ads they put out, this would be the biggest (medical issues aside) negative for me. Eye-roll worthy ads and some of the other things they do that I don't necessarily agree with (though I do seem to be less negative towards some of them than most on this board) don't change my desire to serve Americans. As it stands, though, in some ways I feel that over the past decade or so, being a nurse or firefighter or some other job that serves the public at large would be serving my fellow countrymen more than joining up. That actually would would steer me towards something else. To be clear, I'm not trying to diminish the service or sacrifices of anyone who has joined recently (or ever), but with the hindsight of how Afghanistan ended and how much contempt the current administration seems to have for its citizens, its easy for me to imagine an alternate reality where I would be looking elsewhere even if the military was an option for me.

I have a son who is target age (18). Actually, I have a few kids who are target age, but he has researched joining and has been very interested. For lack of a better word, the 'wokeness' has pushed him away. He said this weekend he has abandoned plans to join.