ThunderHorse
Verified Military
They went away from fat body platoons in the Army and send dudes into the force obese and guys are given 6 months to pass their PFT.
Retention and Recruitment Crisis
- Thread starter RackMaster
- Start date
They went away from fat body platoons in the Army and send dudes into the force obese and guys are given 6 months to pass their PFT.
Devildoc
Verified Military
I am OK with this. I used to be "no way," but I have evolved. Give me a chubby guy (or gal, but that's a different thread) who is motivated and has the drive than a fit person who is a bitch. I don't know what the other services are doing in this regard but I am glad to see movement.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
I don't. Most fat dudes in my various platoons were in fact not motivated and they were bitches. I've rarely met fit persons in combat arms who were bitches. But hey that's just me I guess, I'm sure they exist.
Devildoc
Verified Military
May I present 'the blue falcon'?
In seriousness, I think people who are within a couple percentage of BF but are motivated should be afforded the opportunity to train, which is one thing the army has been forward-thinking on with their pre-basic fat camp (and dummy camp for the ASVAB failures on the margins).
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Point taken, but I've also met "motivated" blue falcons. (we could probably have a whole thread about types of blue falcons
)I do like the pre-basic fat camp and the dummy camp. In fact I think they're fantastic.
Topkick
Verified Military
I'm old enough to remember when fat bodies had to wear the Banana suit. It was a yellow PT uniform identifying a soldier who failed the APFT or HT/W standards.Point taken, but I've also met "motivated" blue falcons. (we could probably have a whole thread about types of blue falcons
I do like the pre-basic fat camp and the dummy camp. In fact I think they're fantastic.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
The Military Recruiting Crisis: Even Veterans Don’t Want Their Families to Join
Don't have anymore free articles so I'd be interested to read this.
But honestly it's pretty clear. Since moving to the All-Volunteer Force we created a Warrior Class. An infinitesimally small segment of the population serves, and their children have served, and their grandchildren are currently serving...but you have the current generation with children nearing enlistment or college age who are being diverted.
Don't have anymore free articles so I'd be interested to read this.
But honestly it's pretty clear. Since moving to the All-Volunteer Force we created a Warrior Class. An infinitesimally small segment of the population serves, and their children have served, and their grandchildren are currently serving...but you have the current generation with children nearing enlistment or college age who are being diverted.
- Wokeness is a major problem, but the woke political elite within the 4 star community dismiss this. This matters though because the recruiting base tends to be conservative no matter the color of their skin.
- In-Service bullshit. The service treats you like shit. It treats your family like shit. If you were enlisted and married with children for an extended period of time...your experience in Army housing could have been horrible, the schools shit, lack of healthcare options, struggling to put food on the table.
- Public treats you like shit and doesn't appreciate your sacrifice, but hey thank you for your service, here's your discount. Nevermind they spit at you behind your back. Or, they spit in your face.
It's similar up here.
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I’ll give you 1 and 2, for me personally it’s more 1 than 2. Maybe it’s just the old Marine in me, but I expected the in-service bullshit; that’s just part of the game. I’ve been out for a long time and only the loud get attention, but the perceived ‘wokeness’ (for lack of a better word) and my belief that the Military as a whole does not take war-fighting seriously anymore, is the single issue that caused me to talk twin-son#1 out of his desire to be a Marine officer and not encourage twin-son#2 to consider an officer career in the Air Force; I have zero doubt they would have both been brilliant, but I absolutely do not trust senior leadership to ‘do the right thing’ by them.
In regards to #3, I or anyone in my Military circle of friends would tend to disagree with you there. I don’t know that I can recall anyone ever trying to make me fell like shit for serving or anything to do with ’spitting’. At me or behind me.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
On 3, Veterans as a group are used as pawns by varied people. Be they politicians or companies. Part of 3 can probably go into a separate category for post service care to veterans. But I truly believe that if the public actually cared about what we do and the sacrifices that we [willingly] made. We'd have less issues with various VA systems falling apart.
I've also been unlucky enough to be called a baby killer by a guy who was definitely one of my best friends in high school. Mind I wasn't even on active duty, I was a college sophomore in ROTC.
I've seen more of this in parts of California then I care to expound upon.
But I have become crotchety enough to know they don't care about who does it, just that it's done. Just like they care about sanitation work.
My youngest isn't eligible, but I would push him away from the military if he was eligible.
Wokeness hurt, but CRT is killing recruiting (IMO).
Saying my skin color makes me a racist is racism in itself. Purposely demonizing 48 +% of your annual recruiting pool is stupid, but CJCS and SecDef fat fuck did it.
You think knowing POTUS is on the Chinese payroll might be a recruiting deterrent?
The article puts it down to multifarious reasons. High pay for no/low skill service jobs, the shambolic Afghanistan withdrawal, ASVAB scores low, weed and ADHD DQs, recruits that are too fat, political leaders right and left believing that the military is too woke or a bastion of white male privilege, parents and influencers on teens believing the military is a bad choice for their kids, and lockdowns/Zoom school crimping recruiting efforts.
I'd argue the big one that I had to fight personally was cultural expectations from my parents that the military was a "career of last resort" and to convince them that it was an honorable career.
I'd argue the big one that I had to fight personally was cultural expectations from my parents that the military was a "career of last resort" and to convince them that it was an honorable career.
Topkick
Verified Military
I had the same issue. My father was a successful homebuilder and gave me shit about my career choice throughout. He just couldn't understand that I didn't do it for the money but rather because it was my calling.
I used to remind him often of the ole saying "if you find a job you love, you never have to work a day of your life"
My dad was proud of me when I joined the Marines even though he’d been in the Army. My mom was pissed that I didn’t join the Navy, lol.
I told my boys they didn’t have to serve just to please me. As long as they respected those who do. They witnessed some glimpses of my struggle with ptsd when they were younger.
Devildoc
Verified Military
Same. I come from a deeply rich military family. I have documentation that we have been in every conflict since the French and Indian War except for the Spanish-American War. No one pressured me to join, I wasn't like Ben in The Great Santini or anything. I told my kids join or don't, no pressure from me, and don't do it for me because that's the wrong reason.
I have one son, 18, who was very much interested and he has really cooled on the idea because of what he is seeing in the country. I have purposely kept my mouth shut, but will offer my opinion if asked.
Navy's new pre-boot 'fat camp': U.S. Navy Adds Pre-Boot Camp Program to Help Recruits With Low Fitness.
Honestly, I love the idea. If you have folks who are motivated enough to join but a few pounds is the difference, do something to help them.
My oldest was a USMA alternate who ended up at FSU. Middle kid had a baseball scholarship so he went his own path. Youngest told the visiting Blue and Gold officer--when asked if he would keep trying if he was at first rejected by USNA: "I dunno...maybe" while I did a facepalm in the next room. He got an appointment to the Merchant Marine Academy but chose FSU also.
My kids have friends in the service. The youngest's best HS bud is a USMC E5 electrician who just reenlisted.
Like you, we have a military tradition. My Great Great Grandpaw fought at Fredericksburg and Chancellorsville, 27th Connecticut Infantry. Since then everybody's served. It makes a big difference, I think, how kids look at the military, if they're brought up with that history.
Unfortunately, most kids today don't have that background. A lot of their grandpaw's were frikkin draft dodgers.
My kids have friends in the service. The youngest's best HS bud is a USMC E5 electrician who just reenlisted.
Like you, we have a military tradition. My Great Great Grandpaw fought at Fredericksburg and Chancellorsville, 27th Connecticut Infantry. Since then everybody's served. It makes a big difference, I think, how kids look at the military, if they're brought up with that history.
Unfortunately, most kids today don't have that background. A lot of their grandpaw's were frikkin draft dodgers.
Devildoc
Verified Military
This is true. The elder statesmen generation when I was growing up were WW2 and Korean War vets (I was a wee lad during the waning years of VN), all of whom were respected. That same generation, today, are the VN vets, and unfortunately, maddeningly, they are often not seen in the same light. There is such a huge apathy about the military, if not a downright hostility.
Topkick
Verified Military
Both grandpa's served in WWII. Uncle was a retired Army 1SG with 3 trips to Vietnam. Three brothers served. My dad didn't serve and maybe felt a little inferior, not sure, but he worked his ass off and still does at 81 Yo.
First in my family to serve. Parents eventually came around.
My very limited perspective is that it's constantly a debate between whether or not you explicitly appeal to those who come from those traditions you feel strongly about how the military should be wrong, or do you try to skim off more one-offs from backgrounds like myself who wouldn't otherwise consider joining. Even though I was very drawn by the tradition, camaraderie, and the desire to serve, I recognize that those aren't going to be selling points for a lot of people who didn't come from that sort of tradition.
Essentially, do you cast a wide net or drill deep?
My very limited perspective is that it's constantly a debate between whether or not you explicitly appeal to those who come from those traditions you feel strongly about how the military should be wrong, or do you try to skim off more one-offs from backgrounds like myself who wouldn't otherwise consider joining. Even though I was very drawn by the tradition, camaraderie, and the desire to serve, I recognize that those aren't going to be selling points for a lot of people who didn't come from that sort of tradition.
Essentially, do you cast a wide net or drill deep?
