Retention and Recruitment Crisis

[Devildoc]

Sure, but that was also the pre SEAL MOS. So ideally, the Sailors who completed SQT become SEALs and the rest return to their MOS for assignment.

NEC, not MOS. Sorry, it's a navy thing.

Before the special warfare operator NEC and they all showed up having gone to an A school, yes, they would have gone back to the fleet in that capacity. Now however, they don't. They go to the fleet as undesignated, which, in my humble opinion which is meaningless, is not right and could easily be fixed by offering them rates and a schools. At least give them the credit for the guts to try.

 

[ThunderHorse]

NEC, not MOS. Sorry, it's a navy thing.

Before the special warfare operator NEC and they all showed up having gone to an A school, yes, they would have gone back to the fleet in that capacity. Now however, they don't. They go to the fleet as undesignated, which, in my humble opinion which is meaningless, is not right and could easily be fixed by offering them rates and a schools. At least give them the credit for the guts to try.

To be pedantic. A NEC is an MOS.

 

[Devildoc]

To be pedantic. A NEC is an MOS.

Oh for fuck sake, you win Rain Man.

 

[Devildoc]

Ah, no clue that was a thing. I always thought, jump school went to jump units.

I have no idea of the numbers break down, perhaps someone on here would better knowledge could pipe up, but I know a lot of navy and marine guys who went to jump school just to get the badge and promotion points.

 

[AWP]

I'd wager the majority of people who go to jump school will never see another jump. They pick up their badge and 15 (whatever it is these days) promotion points and move on with life.

 

[BloodStripe]

What a giant waste of money. What does it cost to send someone to jump school? Factoring in injuries that probably pay out as VA payments, I’d wager it’s pretty substantial.

 

[AWP]

What a giant waste of money. What does it cost to send someone to jump school? Factoring in injuries that probably pay out as VA payments, I’d wager it’s pretty substantial.

It is horrible in the summer when all of the ROTC and West Point cadets are going there. In the 90's, under Clinton when funding was a challenge, summer classes were about 500, every week, for over 2 months. I checked in Thursday before Labor Day in 93 and the Black Hats said our class of 200-250 or so was back to normal.

Considering a lot of those Cadets go between their freshmen and sophomore years, quite a few won't even commission, but they are "paratroopers" because they have their wings.

Yeah, it is a waste.

 

[Marauder06]

What a giant waste of money. What does it cost to send someone to jump school? Factoring in injuries that probably pay out as VA payments, I’d wager it’s pretty substantial.

Esprit and retention. Huge amount of pride tied up in getting those wings. Motivator to continue service. I don't know how much it costs per capita to run someone through Airborne School, but it's probably less than the $55,000 it costs to get someone in uniform. So getting people into uniform, or getting them to stay, it might be worth it in the long run.

 

[RackMaster]

Esprit and retention. Huge amount of pride tied up in getting those wings. Motivator to continue service. I don't know how much it costs per capita to run someone through Airborne School, but it's probably less than the $55,000 it costs to get someone in uniform. So getting people into uniform, or getting them to stay, it might be worth it in the long run.

What's the failure rate for cadets? Wouldn't it be a better motivation to tie it to graduation? Send them prior to first post. Using wings as participation trophies seems unproductive.

 

[Devildoc]

What's the failure rate for cadets? Wouldn't it be a better motivation to tie it to graduation? Send them prior to first post. Using wings as participation trophies seems unproductive.

I would think that failure rate would be close to 0. I see your argument, and that makes sense if there were that many available airborne slots; but then, I guess they could still tie it to graduation regardless of what they do or where they go.

In the navy and Marines it was often like this: "Hey, hard charger, do you want to go? We can get a slot." I did not go to airborne, but I did manage a couple cool schools this way. Right place at the right time.

 

[Marauder06]

What's the failure rate for cadets? Wouldn't it be a better motivation to tie it to graduation? Send them prior to first post. Using wings as participation trophies seems unproductive.

I don't know, I imagine it's pretty low because IIRC the failure rate for Airborne overall is pretty low.

And the TDY costs of sending them as cadets is significantly less than sending them as Os.

 

[Gunz]

I’m going to die on this hill: Until the Marines promote to the billet, they’ll always have a retention issue. Why is someone in an e5 billet not promoted to a Sgt? They have been trusted to lead and act as such; pin and pay them.

I'll die on that same hill, brother. Post-Vietnam I was an E4 squad leader in a weapons platoon. And pretty squared-away for a cynical combat veteran of that great tragedy. I hit the bricks for many reasons, too much time in garrison, racial unrest at Lejeune and doing a job I wasn't getting credit for etc etc.

 

[DA SWO]

Esprit and retention. Huge amount of pride tied up in getting those wings. Motivator to continue service. I don't know how much it costs per capita to run someone through Airborne School, but it's probably less than the $55,000 it costs to get someone in uniform. So getting people into uniform, or getting them to stay, it might be worth it in the long run.

Yet we eliminated a bunch of jump slots at Ft Bragg to save money?

 

[Marauder06]

Yet we eliminated a bunch of jump slots at Ft Bragg to save money?

I don't know anything about that. But maybe Jump School = $$ keeping infrastructure for jump units and people on jump status = $$$$$$$$

 

[Devildoc]

I'll die on that same hill, brother. Post-Vietnam I was an E4 squad leader in a weapons platoon. And pretty squared-away for a cynical combat veteran of that great tragedy. I hit the bricks for many reasons, too much time in garrison, racial unrest at Lejeune and doing a job I wasn't getting credit for etc etc.

The race riot of June (I think) 1969 had lingering memories on base for the following 5, 6 years for sure. I remember growing up on Tarawa Terrace in the early 70s race issues were a thing.

 

[Marauder06]

The race riot of June (I think) 1969 had lingering memories on base for the following 5, 6 years for sure. I remember growing up on Tarawa Terrace in the early 70s race issues were a thing.

My father was a Vietnam-era (i.e. came in during the time, did not go to Vietnam) Army officer, he said race relations were TERRIBLE in the late 60s and early-to-mid 70s.

 

[Devildoc]

My father was a Vietnam-era (i.e. came in during the time, did not go to Vietnam) Army officer, he said race relations were TERRIBLE in the late 60s and early-to-mid 70s.

Growing up on base, my neighbors were white, black, Hispanic/Latino, Filipino, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Catholic, it just didn't feel like an issue on my little boy corner of our neighborhood. But according to my parents, it definitely was, between blacks and whites.

 

[Marauder06]

Growing up on base, my neighbors were white, black, Hispanic/Latino, Filipino, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Catholic, it just didn't feel like an issue on my little boy corner of our neighborhood. But according to my parents, it definitely was, between blacks and whites.

This is my old high school. It was a better school back during the time I was a student, but not much.

Explore Westover High in Fayetteville, NC

10% white, again it was different when I was a student there but I don't know the number because I didn't care about that kind of thing back then.

In high school, I was subjected from time to time to things that I think people would objectively call racism, if I were not white.

That said, I'm glad I went to that school and had those experiences. I think I am better off for it. And I'm glad that I did not experience the kind of racial strife inside the Army that my father (and others on this site) have.

 

[Devildoc]

This is my old high school. It was a better school back during the time I was a student, but not much.

Explore Westover High in Fayetteville, NC

10% white, again it was different when I was a student there but I don't know the number because I didn't care about that kind of thing back then.

In high school, I was subjected from time to time to things that I think people would objectively call racism, if I were not white.

That said, I'm glad I went to that school and had those experiences. I think I am better off for it. And I'm glad that I did not experience the kind of racial strife inside the Army that my father (and others on this site) have.

When my dad retired we moved to central North Carolina, a small town west of Durham. It was much more homogeneous than the base, pretty much only black and white, and 99% Protestant. We had our issues amongst the blacks and whites, and it seemed to be a little more pronounced then it was at Camp Lejeune. But then, I was also older.

It always felt a little odd the military, which is a true melting pot, would have such pronounced racial division.

 

[ThunderHorse]

It is horrible in the summer when all of the ROTC and West Point cadets are going there. In the 90's, under Clinton when funding was a challenge, summer classes were about 500, every week, for over 2 months. I checked in Thursday before Labor Day in 93 and the Black Hats said our class of 200-250 or so was back to normal.

Considering a lot of those Cadets go between their freshmen and sophomore years, quite a few won't even commission, but they are "paratroopers" because they have their wings.

Yeah, it is a waste.

Cadet Command only sends contracted and scholarship cadets to schools these days. In the late 80s and early 90s it was different apparently where they just needed to be enrolled in ROTC. So I'd say most commission, at least today.