Topkick
Verified Military
Russian election Interference thread
- Thread starter Poccington
- Start date
I feel like we are missing something too- this has nothing to do with collusion. You’ve all taken the bait a little bit too much here, I think. We are finding more and more evidence- indictment worthy evidence- that Russia fucked with our election process. Doesn’t that piss anyone off?
Russia influenced our election.There hasn’t been sufficient evidence to prove there was intent from President Trump’s campaign to collude with Russianin that effort; but everyone including you, @SpongeBob*24 , is conflating those issues as one thing part and parcel are missing the point either willfully for party line reasons or- whatever else.
We’ve found, during Meuller’s investigation, that Russia influenced our election process. Full stop.
They knew Russia hacked the election board before the election. It was during President Obama's last few months, and I think the time to do anything would have been then. Just because President Trump has not done anything yet doesn't mean nothing will happen.
After he meets with Putin, and see what goes on with the indictments, then we can ask why not sanctions. I dont' know how exactly the proccess works, but I'm sure the actual indictments help the case.
Wait, so the democrats calling for impeachment of Trump due to cullusion with Russians to interfere with the 2016 election, no longer is relevant? So the whole reason this investigation started doesn't matter, just the fact that Russian hacked the DNC?
Here is a news flash, nations have influenced our elections for years, we have also heavily influenced other nations election processes. We have also, covertly overthrown elected and nonelected governments. We have started civil unreat, riots and started civil wars in foreign countries. And we are suppoed to be shocked, or outraged that someone else has done that to us?
If you haven't noticed, Russia has fucked with two allies in Europe in the past 10 years, practically took over Georgia, and annexed Crimea from Ukraine, while supporting separatist in the Easter region's of Ukraine. We have moved closer to and closer to a cold war with Russia and the NATO alliance nations. Nevermind that we have been sanctioning the living crap out of Russia for the past 8-9 years already. Now you want to up those sanctions, because they hack the DNC and released a bunch of shit the DNCwas trying to keep secret from the American people?
We're not talking about hacked and released false or invalid information, just released the true bullshit the DNC was pulling...like the whole pushing Bernie Sanders out of the running, covering Clinton's bullshit up, game plan bullshit, etc.
In close, I'm not shocked, I'm not upset. Unless they can prove direct hacking of election counts and or collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russian government. I couldn't really care less...
Here is a news flash, nations have influenced our elections for years, we have also heavily influenced other nations election processes. We have also, covertly overthrown elected and nonelected governments. We have started civil unreat, riots and started civil wars in foreign countries. And we are suppoed to be shocked, or outraged that someone else has done that to us?
If you haven't noticed, Russia has fucked with two allies in Europe in the past 10 years, practically took over Georgia, and annexed Crimea from Ukraine, while supporting separatist in the Easter region's of Ukraine. We have moved closer to and closer to a cold war with Russia and the NATO alliance nations. Nevermind that we have been sanctioning the living crap out of Russia for the past 8-9 years already. Now you want to up those sanctions, because they hack the DNC and released a bunch of shit the DNCwas trying to keep secret from the American people?
We're not talking about hacked and released false or invalid information, just released the true bullshit the DNC was pulling...like the whole pushing Bernie Sanders out of the running, covering Clinton's bullshit up, game plan bullshit, etc.
In close, I'm not shocked, I'm not upset. Unless they can prove direct hacking of election counts and or collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russian government. I couldn't really care less...
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Am I pissed off that another country fucked with our elections one way or the other? I've covered multiple times how Hillary was bought and paid for through the CGI, one of the main donors was a Russian who purchased a stake in Uranium One which was allowed by Shipwreck Hillary.Do you have one after January? Like, after we’ve found beyond a shadow of a doubt that Russia hacked the DNC with the explicit purpose of helping President Trump win? That would be relevant.
And the same folks that nearly shit themselves over the words ‘radical Islamic terrorists’ are calling coetowing to Putin (he’s a rival, remember?) ‘diplomacy’. It seems the time for harsh language would be now.
I feel like we are missing something too- this has nothing to do with collusion. You’ve all taken the bait a little bit too much here, I think. We are finding more and more evidence- indictment worthy evidence- that Russia fucked with our election process. Doesn’t that piss anyone off?
Russia influenced our election.There hasn’t been sufficient evidence to prove there was intent from President Trump’s campaign to collude with Russianin that effort; but everyone including you, @SpongeBob*24 , is conflating those issues as one thing part and parcel are missing the point either willfully for party line reasons or- whatever else.
We’ve found, during Meuller’s investigation, that Russia influenced our election process. Full stop.
The fact that people aren’t supremely pissed off about that fact is surprising as fuck. Russia should be harshly sanctioned, not treated with kid gloves and fawned over. Fox News and the President got their wish- all the sycophants out there are just parroting the fake news/no collusion rhetoric and letting Russia off with a pass.
Regardless of how many business interests and profits the President may or may not have in that country. Not saying that he does; just saying that would make a lot of sense and lots of people are saying that. Smart people.
How many times have we meddled in even our allies elections? Seriously, we can't get holier than thou right now. More like, jokes on us, we suck.
Yes, this is a witch hunt. I'm quite sure Hillary would have had her transition team meeting with multiple people to talk about the future and nothing would have happened. Why? Because until our peak outrage culture that was the norm. Why was John Kerry going off and speaking to foreign governments a few months ago?
I'm with @Diamondback 2/2 on this, do we want Russia's help fighting Islamists, or do we want to Sanction them which really won't affect their economy?
Do you think that the ‘war on radical Islamic terrorism’ is a more clear and present danger to the US than Russia is?
Well, we agree- the President has done nothing about the Russian hacking/election meddling. Well, he did ask Putin, Putin said they didn’t. Maybe you’re right and he’s playing 4D chess and winning. Or maybe Putin is just eating his lunch. Let’s wait it out.
1- why are you talking about Hillary? Let’s talk about Russia. 2- why do we need Russia’s help again in the ‘war against Islamic terrorism’? 3- I’d rather toe a very hard line with a near peer competitor and stop losing at every step. Literally, every single interaction with Russia we’ve come out looking like a lil bitch. Weren’t we supposed to win bigly at all this stuff?
@Diamondback 2/2 no, all the collusion talk might come full circle and those Democrats might get the impeachment they so desire. But this is the Russian election interference thread; new indictments were handed out today incriminating more Russians. I am more interested in being a pissed off American citizen than I am blaming a political party because it’s not MY political party.
Again- no one (especially not me) is saying ‘Russia hacked election counts/machines’.
I am saying, ‘Russia hacked the DNC, released information during key times of the election, and influenced the election process to get the candidate they wanted in the White House’.
And now, that candidate, now President, seems to be very very soft on Russia and nobody finds that odd.
Topkick
Verified Military
That, my friend, is a fair question.
There is some evidence of possibly Russian *attempts* to hack the people producing the voting machines.
Top-Secret NSA Report Details Russian Hacking Effort Days Before 2016 Election
Note before someone has an aneurism: There are leaked NSA documents on there but the NSA has asked for and received redactions before publishing.
Top-Secret NSA Report Details Russian Hacking Effort Days Before 2016 Election
Note before someone has an aneurism: There are leaked NSA documents on there but the NSA has asked for and received redactions before publishing.
Are you implying that I am more interested in blaming the DNC vs Russia?
I think both party's can go to hell at this point. But no, I'm not mad at russia for doing what every nation does, to include ourselves. I'm more shocked at the DNC's content that was leaked, the follow on hysteria of Clinton and Obama to pitch our country against possible war with Russia over their embarrassment over their own internal bullshit. More so, I am extremely shocked at the politicization of the DOJ and FBI at the upper levels under the Obama administration.
If they want to put indictments on all kinds of Russians for whatever the fuck, right on. If they want to sanction Russia, and or attempt to pitch us into another cold war, because the DNC got hacked and their bullshit got aired out. Nah, I'm not good with that. I want out country to develop better relations with Russia, I don't want to see another cold war or arms race. I'd like my daughter's and son to grow up in a world where "Red Dawn" is not the underlining bullshit threat.
I'd also like to get this whole Islamic terrorism bullshit over with, 17 years later and we haven't got the job done, because everyone wants to be politically correct and culturally diverse, with people who want to kill us or convert us.
But anyway, this thread is about Russian involvement in the 2016 elections, and as stated before, I don't care unless they fucked with the vote counts or clear collusion is proved.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Answering this question the way I want to cues some issues. But I will just go with an emphatic, yes.
That would make a good thread topic.
I still think that Russia was just trying to sow hate and discontent in the last election, and were just as surprised as the rest of the world was when President Trump won.
I kind of wonder, though, didn't Russia do the US a favor? And I mean besides ensuring that Trump won (if that's what you believe), even though that was a HUGE favor to us. So even if we accept that the Russians hacked the DNC's servers and were responsible for dumping the contents to Wikileaks, which I agree is probable, what did those records reveal? That the Clinton Campaign and the DNC really did conspire against the Sanders Campaign and the will of Democrat voters, to rig the primary for Secretary Clinton? That Clinton was regularly receiving classified information on her private devices? That even with a rigged primary, the collusion of government officials (some of whom were supposed to be investigating her) and highly influential members of the press, and the fact that it was "her turn" to be president, she STILL couldn't pull it off?
Our election system is based on the Electoral College. Even if the Russians fully intervened to support Trump, most of those states were going to go for Trump or Clinton regardless of what those late-stage leaks showed. The election was Clinton's to lose, and she lost it. And now we have President Trump, whom I did not vote for, but would vote for today if he was up for re-election.
...and if Russia was able to so easily hack the Democratic National Convention, a massive, enormously well-funded organization which presumably did not want to get hacked and had significant security measures in place to protect itself, what does it say about a server sitting... I know know in the basement of someone's private home? A server that we now know, courtesy of the Russians, handled "sensitive, highly classified information?"
I guess we should get the server and all of the devices that fed into it so we can examine them forensically and... oh wait. I forgot. Someone made sure that wouldn't happen.
The American People are better off knowing about the corruption going on behind closed doors. Let that disinfecting sunlight in...
I kind of wonder, though, didn't Russia do the US a favor? And I mean besides ensuring that Trump won (if that's what you believe), even though that was a HUGE favor to us. So even if we accept that the Russians hacked the DNC's servers and were responsible for dumping the contents to Wikileaks, which I agree is probable, what did those records reveal? That the Clinton Campaign and the DNC really did conspire against the Sanders Campaign and the will of Democrat voters, to rig the primary for Secretary Clinton? That Clinton was regularly receiving classified information on her private devices? That even with a rigged primary, the collusion of government officials (some of whom were supposed to be investigating her) and highly influential members of the press, and the fact that it was "her turn" to be president, she STILL couldn't pull it off?
Our election system is based on the Electoral College. Even if the Russians fully intervened to support Trump, most of those states were going to go for Trump or Clinton regardless of what those late-stage leaks showed. The election was Clinton's to lose, and she lost it. And now we have President Trump, whom I did not vote for, but would vote for today if he was up for re-election.
...and if Russia was able to so easily hack the Democratic National Convention, a massive, enormously well-funded organization which presumably did not want to get hacked and had significant security measures in place to protect itself, what does it say about a server sitting... I know know in the basement of someone's private home? A server that we now know, courtesy of the Russians, handled "sensitive, highly classified information?"
I guess we should get the server and all of the devices that fed into it so we can examine them forensically and... oh wait. I forgot. Someone made sure that wouldn't happen.
The American People are better off knowing about the corruption going on behind closed doors. Let that disinfecting sunlight in...
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Yikes...
Ok, welp! Big gulps huh? Alright!
I think I’m tracking the varying view points here. I don’t know if there’s a productive conversation further than this point. It’s never black and white, but it seems like we fall into two camps on this one.
A - ‘State sponsored election hacking/influencing is unacceptable and should be punished when discovered’
Or.
B - ‘There are a lot of other factors at play here and given certain circumstances, state sponsored election hacking isn’t that important to me.’
Ok, welp! Big gulps huh? Alright!
I think I’m tracking the varying view points here. I don’t know if there’s a productive conversation further than this point. It’s never black and white, but it seems like we fall into two camps on this one.
A - ‘State sponsored election hacking/influencing is unacceptable and should be punished when discovered’
Or.
B - ‘There are a lot of other factors at play here and given certain circumstances, state sponsored election hacking isn’t that important to me.’
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Not really. Is someone interfering in our elections something that should be punished? The answer is it depends. What do we want from the Nation that chose to execute said interference? If we want nothing? Punish them. If we want something, well you want keep going: Oh the Russians, the Russians.
What I see clearly as the objective of their interference was to sew division amongst us, the result didn't matter because we'd just as divided on this forum with Hillary. Obviously above most of our clearance levels, but how many of their elections have we interfered with? Probably every single one. And they want something from us, which is why you don't see the Russians throwing sanctions at us.
Did you know, that the most FIFA World Cup tickets purchased by nationality were from Americans? Our team isn't in that thing and we had the largest contingent of citizens traveling to Russia to watch soccer there. Yeah, let's throw up some sanctions so that over 30-40k of our citizens get harassed on their way in. Sounds smart as shit.
It's egg on our face.
What I see clearly as the objective of their interference was to sew division amongst us, the result didn't matter because we'd just as divided on this forum with Hillary. Obviously above most of our clearance levels, but how many of their elections have we interfered with? Probably every single one. And they want something from us, which is why you don't see the Russians throwing sanctions at us.
Did you know, that the most FIFA World Cup tickets purchased by nationality were from Americans? Our team isn't in that thing and we had the largest contingent of citizens traveling to Russia to watch soccer there. Yeah, let's throw up some sanctions so that over 30-40k of our citizens get harassed on their way in. Sounds smart as shit.
It's egg on our face.
Devildoc
Verified Military
It's politics and foreign policy. It's always conditional. Always.
Is it good? No. Is it legal? No. Is it ethical? No. But it is part and parcel of politics and foreign policy.
Is it good? No. Is it legal? No. Is it ethical? No. But it is part and parcel of politics and foreign policy.
I expect the Soviets/ Russians to hack us to their advantage.
I do not expect our president to accept or profit from this to their advantage.
In other words, if this hand feeds you, great, but you to bite it like a rabid monkey at some point.
I do not expect our president to accept or profit from this to their advantage.
In other words, if this hand feeds you, great, but you to bite it like a rabid monkey at some point.
Do I believe the Russians influenced the election? Yes, without a doubt. We do the same thing to every other country.
Do I believe Trump knowingly worked with a FIS to help win the election? No.
Does that mean should he have worked with a FIS unknowingly that he gets to walk away freely? No. Ignorance is not an excusable defense.
Did Peter Storzk act impartially with regards to the investigation? I believe he violated the Hatch Act and was inappropriately influencing the investigation.
Do I believe Trump knowingly worked with a FIS to help win the election? No.
Does that mean should he have worked with a FIS unknowingly that he gets to walk away freely? No. Ignorance is not an excusable defense.
Did Peter Storzk act impartially with regards to the investigation? I believe he violated the Hatch Act and was inappropriately influencing the investigation.
"Мой пенис больше, чем Чикаго"-- Путин
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So, uh...
You know what country has some of the most beautiful, pristine, challenging rock climbing in the world? Afghanistan.
IDGAF about security lines at the World Cup. I don’t really care that we mess with other people elections, either. That excuse is clown shoes.
Until the President takes some action- diplomatic or otherwise- this is a beta-male belly showing foul against a guy that’s been eating his lunch.
President Trump is Putin’s pocket holding lil punk.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Who's talking security lines at the WC? I'm talking about harassment by their Law Enforcement Apparatus.
Fact is we have thousands of our fellow citizens choosing to visit a country that is not our enemy. This is egg on our face and nothing else, either pick ourselves up or continue dividing ourselves and continue being punk bitches about it.
Fact is we have thousands of our fellow citizens choosing to visit a country that is not our enemy. This is egg on our face and nothing else, either pick ourselves up or continue dividing ourselves and continue being punk bitches about it.
Couldn't disagree more with you. One we don't know the full extent of the Russian hack, what we do know so far is that it was a hack on the DNC. Not the government, not the electoral system. But a political party.
Saying "we do it is clown shoes" is skipping the argument, of why would we be upset at someone doing to us, what we do to them. If you go around stealing everyone's lunch money, and then one day it happens to you, you don't get to cry "OMG how could you" and ain't nobody gonna feel for you.
Wanting to have your cake and eat it too on the political spectrum is fine, but here in reality, you don't get to drag the group down because you are bent about your polotical party being hacked and the drama being released to the unwashed masses.
You have absolutely no proof that Trump is Putin's puppet, you are making inflammatory responses, because the conversation isn't going your way, or how you felt it should go.
I love you bro, but I expect better out of you, the inflammatory non-factual, fuck with the group posts are my department! You are supposed to be the level headed, reasonable and educated fact bringer...
