School/Mass shootings are now part of our culture.

To me it's largely academic. We homeschool. As such, we do have guns in the school, and the teachers are well-trained! ;)

But it's an important argument/discussion to have, because I am sure many of you have kids in school (public and private), so y'all got skin in the game.

Speaking of which, my skin in the game also involves my kids at summer camps. And after school programs in private facilities. And gathering in groups on trips to amusement parks. And at children's magic shows...

We can turn schools into mini FOBs but they're only one of many locations where lots of kids congregate.

Its a sticky wicket, for sure.
 
Or make all schools private, remove from public tax programs and they then provide security measures outlined by a federal standard. I have my youngest in private school. I still pay public school taxes.
 
From bad to worse regarding the Broward County Sheriffs. I am no expert of course but why would they wait until the Coral Springs officers arrived? Would they have been ordered to wait? In which case ordered by whom?

Sources: Coral Springs police upset at some Broward deputies for not entering school - CNNPolitics

When Coral Springs police officers arrived at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, on February 14 in the midst of the school shooting crisis, many officers were surprised to find not only that Broward County Sheriff's Deputy Scot Peterson, the armed school resource officer, had not entered the building, but that three other Broward County Sheriff's deputies were also outside the school and had not entered, Coral Springs sources tell CNN. The deputies had their pistols drawn and were behind their vehicles, the sources said, and not one of them had gone into the school.
With direction from the Broward deputies who were outside, Coral Springs police soon entered the building where the shooter was. New Broward County Sheriff's deputies arrived on the scene, and two of those deputies and an officer from Sunrise, Florida, joined the Coral Springs police as they went into the building.
Some Coral Springs police were stunned and upset that the four original Broward County Sheriff's deputies who were first on the scene did not appear to join them as they entered the school, Coral Springs sources tell CNN. It's unclear whether the shooter was still in the building when they arrived.
 
From bad to worse regarding the Broward County Sheriffs. I am no expert of course but why would they wait until the Coral Springs officers arrived? Would they have been ordered to wait? In which case ordered by whom?

Sources: Coral Springs police upset at some Broward deputies for not entering school - CNNPolitics


The School Resourse Officer was the biggest coward of all. He was the only armed person on the scene and the shooter's rampage went on for 8 minutes while this yellow bastard hid.
 
The School Resourse Officer was the biggest coward of all. He was the only armed person on the scene and the shooter's rampage went on for 8 minutes while this yellow bastard hid.

Worse yet they let him resign/retire. Pension should go to those who died. Sheriff will swing for the incompetent behavior of the few. Sad times🤬
 
saw that on the news, the responding Coral Springs PD guys were not happy.

Would like to hear the radio traffic to see what was being said on the ground at the time......sad day for Broward County...I had always heard good things.

I know at our department we have active shooter training and ambush training annually....I can count on one hand the number of "retired on duty" that would probably do the same as that SRO, and most of those are 25+ plus year officers.

There are always soldiers, cops, who run toward the sound of battle, and those that retreat or hold.....not right, but it happens.
 
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Tin foil chapeaux have become all the rage in the last few years, so I’m making one for this discussion, a’la Kentucky Derby style.

With the abject failure of the FBI to exercise due diligence, nay even give the tiniest shred of a fuck, the inability of BCSO to police their way out of a wet paper bag that’s open on both ends regarding this situation, and the overall willful disregard for enforcement of the laws already on the books at state and federal levels, it’s starting to look a lot like folks are trying to nullify the 2nd Amendment. “Look! The laws don’t prevent the shootings!” Ummmm, because you let it happen by not doing what you said would prevent this shit decades ago?

The only thing that leads me to NOT believe in such a conspiracy is that modern Americans are fucking idiots. They eat Tide Pods, beer-bong handles of booze, and other feats that lack self-preservation for YouTube glory. They’re too fucking dumb to put together a conspiracy like that. Occam’s Razor cuts deep...
 
Fuuuuck me.

This is turning into a bigger shit show every hour.

FOUR deputies failed to enter school building in shooting | Daily Mail Online
I was just going to post this. Unbelievable I even talked to my mom about it and she was dismayed. People like us who run towards gun fire will never understand that kind of cowardice. If it was cowardice or just stupidity. Talk about failing in every way possible. The unarmed PE teacher at least tried to shield the children losing his own life in the process. I wish the PE teacher had been armed at least he cared enough to try.
 
I was just going to post this. Unbelievable I even talked to my mom about it and she was dismayed. People like us who run towards gun fire will never understand that kind of cowardice. If it was cowardice or just stupidity. Talk about failing in every way possible. The unarmed PE teacher at least tried to shield the children losing his own life in the process. I wish the PE teacher had been armed at least he cared enough to try.
What I cannot, will not, ever get past is that these officers had at least some tactical training. This fucking kid would have shit his pants if he were suddenly confronted by someone armed.

I’m waiting for the “we didn’t know what we were dealing with” excuse.

Fuck the hell off with that bullshit, boys. That line went out the window with Columbine. Every swinging dick and his mama “knows” the source of gun fire is going to be a single white kid with an AR. It always is.

And people ask me why I “carry” nearly everywhere I go. This is just one more example of acknowledging that I cannot count on the police to protect me.

To add -
I can only try to imagine how frustrated and angry the average LEO is by this story.
 
What I cannot, will not, ever get past is that these officers had at least some tactical training. This fucking kid would have shit his pants if he were suddenly confronted by someone armed.

I’m waiting for the “we didn’t know what we were dealing with” excuse.

Fuck the hell off with that bullshit, boys. That line went out the window with Columbine. Every swinging dick and his mama “knows” the source of gun fire is going to be a single white kid with an AR. It always is.

And people ask me why I “carry” nearly everywhere I go. This is just one more example of acknowledging that I cannot count on the police to protect me.

To add -
I can only try to imagine how frustrated and angry the average LEO is by this story.
Yup, I know my family members who are LE and ex LE are pissed. My uncle is one of those school officers in Alabama. He is an ex state trooper who I am sure is fuming right now. I need to call him.
 
So, if a LE officer(s) whose only purpose in life is school security shits the bed when things get real, what is the expectation that someone engaged in the activity of teaching kids will switch gears fast enough to draw in time and fire accurately? Or to fire accurately and not friendly fire on kids if a shootout occurs in confined spaces with children running all over the place?

What's to stop a shooter entering a school with his favorite rifle from simply thinking, "take out the teacher first" if they know teachers are strapped?

Will arming be a voluntary thing, or will there be consequences if "adept teachers with military or special training..." say 'no' to carrying?


Caveat: I ask these questions should anyone have real specialization in school security, or material from those who do, and not to state any position.
 
Caveat: this program may not have existed when you served, @DocIllinois, so you may not have known about it. Having said that, the Troops To Teachers program is a successful program. This link shows their FY2016 numbers.

Reading many of your responses in this thread, my perception of your view of teachers is that they would be reticent to even accidentally gaze upon a firearm, much less operate one inside or outside a training environment. And most of them are, yes. However, this program demonstrates that there already are teachers with at least a minimum of military training out there in the schools. Given, I haven’t had the time to suss out the breakdown of participants by MOS, but it’s fair to say that the combat arms MOSs are not excluded from this program.

Adjusting for the existence of those participants who would never touch a gun again if their lives depended on it, and the disproportionate representation of the southern states in the military coupled with the likelihood of their returning to where they came from after retirement/ETS, it was more likely that the Florida shooter would run into a veteran/teacher than the Sandy Hook shooter.

As teachers, these veterans would already understand the concept that their job would not be to close with, engage, and destroy the enemy. Rather, the expectation would be to mount an armed defense of their students in whatever area they were forced to take cover. Or, should they be caught in the open by the antagonist, to engage as such to enable their charges to escape and take cover.

Given that the shooter would most likely believe that 100% of his adult targets are unarmed, the presence of just one adult firing a bare minimum of suppressive fire (if brandishing alone didn’t do it) would upend his apocalyptic delusion of grandeur and likely end with a fatal, self-inflicted wound to the antagonist. Remember, these school and church shooters aren’t battle tested CQB masters re-enacting the storming of Beslan, they’re unstable menaces that —had the laws already in place been followed — shouldn’t have been able to legally procure weapons to start with, and are following a “tactical plan” that was probably written by the underpants gnomes.

For the majority of teachers that aren’t prior service, let the decision to carry be 100% voluntary. Teach them how to hit what they aim at, and that they are there to defend whatever classroom or closet they are barricaded inside of, not to get their SWAT on. Let the counteroffensive be the bailiwick of armed security or law enforcement (assuming that they aren’t made of the same stuff as Broward’s Cowards).
 
Seems I'm late to the show. Bullets...
  • Lack of parenting, fear of parents, fear of adult, beatings etc
  • Lack of godliness
  • Not being taught the value of life both at school and in the home
  • zero state mental health apparatus
  • In the 1950s you could straight up bring guns to elementary schools...rifles of course even...what changed
  • do we want to live in a free and open society?
  • Then you accept that there will be shootings and terrorist attacks.
 
Seems I'm late to the show. Bullets...
  • Lack of parenting, fear of parents, fear of adult, beatings etc
  • Lack of godliness
  • Not being taught the value of life both at school and in the home
  • zero state mental health apparatus
  • In the 1950s you could straight up bring guns to elementary schools...rifles of course even...what changed
  • do we want to live in a free and open society?
  • Then you accept that there will be shootings and terrorist attacks.
Come on man. PLEASE.

There are 10 pages of conversation in this thread.

What do your “bullets” (and using that word in the context you did was tasteless in this thread, by the way) mean?

If you are only going to supply a list, can you at least share what the list is supposed to be of?
 
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