School/Mass shootings are now part of our culture.

Just bumping around Twitter and the like and reading comments and whatnot...go make the argument or float the idea this was a hate crime towards Christians. Toss it out there and watch it burn.

Ah, hell, all of this nonsense will go away once the Chinese take over. I really hope I don't have some smelly Uighur for a "roommate."
 
This is our president, America.

Remarks by President Biden at the SBA Women's Business Summit | The White House

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you. My name is Joe Biden. (Laughter.) I’m Dr. Jill Biden’s husband. (Laughter.) And I eat Jeni’s Ice Cream, chocolate chip. (Laughter.) I came down because I heard there was chocolate chip ice cream. (Laughter.)

By the way, I have a whole refrigerator full upstairs. (Laughter.) You think I’m kidding, I’m not.

Then following his banter with a senator, he decided to discuss gun violence, once again calling for blah, blah, blah, we've seen that before.
 
Well that didn't take too long. I'd expect shit like this from the rabbit kid first.

If we're saying identity and ideology is a cause of these shootings, then are people on the board about to retroactively acknowledge a bunch of these shootings were tied to these right wing incel types?

Because that's the argument you just decided was valid.

ETA: Don't take this as me defending the fucking shooter's from being pieces of shit. I 100% won't be suprised if the nashville one is tied to identity and target. I'm highlighting how often people turn a blind eye to it when it's someone with their views who does this because of said views.
 
Well that didn't take too long. I'd expect shit like this from the rabbit kid first.

If we're saying identity and ideology is a cause of these shootings, then are people on the board about to retroactively acknowledge a bunch of these shootings were tied to these right wing incel types?

Because that's the argument you just decided was valid.

ETA: Don't take this as me defending the fucking shooter's from being pieces of shit. I 100% won't be suprised if the nashville one is tied to identity and target. I'm highlighting how often people turn a blind eye to it when it's someone with their views who does this because of said views.
Well I’m more connected than the rabbit, so I beat him there.

Who is saying anything like that? I posted a meme, and the facts of the meme are correct. So it if means *I’m* not making conclusions, and you obviously disagree- then there’s no ‘we’.

As far as what precedent we are setting- jokes on you, your terms are acceptable. I’m willing to look st we very single shooting, the ideology and political leanings of the shooters, and call it exactly what it is. “And though the heavens may fall”, as it were.

Your problem is that, again, the meme is correct, and you can’t dispute it. So, while previous shooters may have been white incel types (present whatever evidence you want), the current and most prescient trend is the one outlined in the meme.

Your ETA is interesting, considering without any comment from me, you made sure to assume conclusion, intent and even malice because you felt as if the views being called out are left leaning and you tend to lean left. “Ugh, if this guy was a right wing incel you’d turn a blind eye, but because they’re a left with trans ideology, all of a sudden it’s an issue and not just a crazy person!”

“Make your enemy play by their own rules.”

Every republican senator is MTG. Every school shooter is a right wing incel. Everyone that doesn’t agree with the left wing narrative is literally hitler. We are long past “let’s look at individuals and maybe they’re just crazy people and not representative of their whole ‘side’”. And we aren’t there because of the right, we are there because if the left. So, that’s the game now.
 
Trans Activism is Terrorism. End. Of.

I was reading through a bunch of Twitter threads the other day by a Lesbian journo who was targeted by trans people because she talked about how it's completely OK for lesbians to not want be with trans females.

The trans movement seems to think that a penis is a female sec organ.

Also, but I'm sorry. But if you still have a stick and golf balls you're just a transvestite. A cross dresser.
 
Your problem is that, again, the meme is correct, and you can’t dispute it. So, while previous shooters may have been white incel types (present whatever evidence you want), the current and most prescient trend is the one outlined in the meme.

My problem is that the meme is going back for almost 5 years of shooting to create the narrative that "the trans movement is creating violent terrorists".

That's really weak to be calling something. prescient trend.

Your ETA is interesting, considering without any comment from me, you made sure to assume conclusion, intent and even malice because you felt as if the views being called out are left leaning and you tend to lean left. “Ugh, if this guy was a right wing incel you’d turn a blind eye, but because they’re a left with trans ideology, all of a sudden it’s an issue and not just a crazy person!”

Less because I assumed malice from you (you're pretty good about being direct with posts like this).

It's more so me trying to prevent malice being assumed of myself. As you said; I'm pretty much the only left leaning person on this board anymore. When anything politically connected like this lines up, I know my posts get read differently then other members here.

As far as what precedent we are setting- jokes on you, your terms are acceptable. I’m willing to look st we very single shooting, the ideology and political leanings of the shooters, and call it exactly what it is. “And though the heavens may fall”, as it were.

Cool, this is what we should do. My point is we (not you directly) don't do this when it is politically inconvenient.

This is one of those cases were a motive seems pretty likely. Former student attacks a religious school? Student is trans? Seems like it had a pretty simple reason to me.
 
It's more so me trying to prevent malice being assumed of myself. As you said; I'm pretty much the only left leaning person on this board anymore.
You're definitely not. I can think of at least two more, of which one is, like you, highly respected here because he can hold rational and thoughtful discourse on issues like this. You're also not someone to whom most people here would ascribe malice in your posts. I certainly don't.

The incel angle is interesting. I could think of only one major incel-specific mass shooting, which was probably the one that most folks think of when they think of incel violence (in fact this is how I learned "incel" was a thing; prior to that I thought that "not getting laid" was "a pretty normal condition for a lot of men when they were young, including me").

I didn't spend a lot of time looking it up, but I didn't find a lot of things that supported the incel argument for a lot of mass shootings. I found a couple, but I also did find an article that tries reeeeaalll hard to shoehorn incel into motivations in other crimes. Example:

Or take the Buffalo shooter’s recent manifesto mentioning the Great Replacement Theory, the idea that the White Race was being progressvely replaced by the Brown and Black Races. While he clearly espoused a racist ideology, the young man was also sexually and socially frustrated, felt marginalized from his local community and so searched for and found acceptance in extremist online forums.

OK. So the Buffalo shooter was racist, when we want to use that for political purposes. But in an article about incels, suddenly he's an incel? I mean, I followed that story because I live in NY, and I think it's pretty clear the guy was an outright racist. And of course it's possible to have more than one motivation for a crime. But maybe the reason he had social and sexual problems was because... he's a racist and all-around shitty human being? Correlation does not equal causation...

But even assuming that incels are committing a lot of mass gun violence, "young men who can't get laid, and are mad about it" probably eclipse, by orders of magnitude, the number of trans men in the US. And assuming that the claims in the "trans shooter" meme are also true (I didn't fact-check them), then it seems likely that trans/non-binary men are committing mass gun violence in great disproportionality to their relative numbers, at least over say the last 6 or 7 years.

Inasmuch as correlation does not equal causation with incels, the same should be said for trans perpetrators. It used to be way easier to purchase and keep firearms. I mean, I've bought guns from Wal-Mart in the past, and you could literally order guns through the Sears catalogue. Yet, we had far fewer mass shootings in the past. I think? So if that's true, what has changed? I'm not expert, but I think a combination of a steady rise in mental health issues, a decline in shared values, disintegration of the family unit, a culture of self-indulgence and self-victimization, and mass social media have brought us where we are today.

I don't know what is causing all of this violence. I don't know if incels or trans folk or anyone else is more likely to carry it out (other than to note that most mass shooters are young and male, and most mass shooters you read about in the news are white). I do know that in addition to the enormous grief and suffering these attacks inflict on the families and victims involved, they also give bureaucrats the ability to negatively affect my life and my ability to protect myself, my family, and my property with firearms.

We are all losers in these attacks, no matter if they target a gay bar, a recruiting center, or a Catholic school. My deep empathy for the victims and their families. :(
 
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@Cookie_ if anything, the Trump years caused many hard-core righties on this board (like me) to merge left a bit. Like me.

What sometimes happened in the past was that when someone with a left-leaning POV would raise their hand, they’d get shouted down and just quit posting. The Staff mostly got that reigned in before the lengthy forum shutdown,

I hope you keep posting your thoughts, but to everyone….

 
Let's leave political leanings aside for a moment and focus on reality. There has been publicized cases associated with incels but not in huge numbers.

It's completely ok to make assumptions when we're dealing with extremes that are now showing behavioural patterns. It's safe to say that incel and trans, are polar opposites. They are also the result of a primary cause of every major societal crisis. Untreated, ignored or ostracized mental illness. If we looked data, the percentage of trans or incel killers are likely similar. Just like any other killer with a mental illness, it's in the extremes. Only certain diagnosis are correlated with likelihood of criminality. And just like trans, incels are likely to have concurrent disorders. One we ostracize and the other we respond to their every whim, praising their illness and changing society solely for them.
 
Being pedantic, but also offering something to chew on...we can fit into many groups at once. Labels can be just words or they can mean something. Some live by their labels and some don't. Got it.

But take someone who has a lot of hate in their heart. Being racist doesn't mean you are prone to violence. Being a racist incel doesn't mean you are prone to violence, but how much hate does anyone take before they snap and get their murder on? For some it is A subject, but for others it is "nickel and dime shit" which adds up to push them over the edge. Maybe we'll learn the motive, maybe we won't, maybe some people are just fucking crazy (did the Las Vegas shooter, the guy from the hotel, ever have a motive publicized?). We can put people into a box based on our own bias or agenda and that box might be accurate, but is it the only box?

And absolutely none of that is a firearms issue.
 
My problem is that the meme is going back for almost 5 years of shooting to create the narrative that "the trans movement is creating violent terrorists".

That's really weak to be calling something. prescient trend.
According to the Williams institute, about 1.4 million Americans identify as trans: the CDC puts that number around 0.3% of the population. Going back 5 years and highlighting that trans shooters were not only responsible for the highest percentage of mass shootings in recent memory but then also showing the numbers that per capita, trans people are exponentially more likely to commit mass shootings in the last 5 years than every single other focus group most certainly makes it a prescient trend.

The percentage of mass shootings carried out by a single focus group making up only 0.3% of the American population makes this the definition of a dangerous and emerging trend. I understand your point, but I disagree.

We profile white dudes (as @TLDR20 accurately pointed out) for these types of shootings because they're more likely to do so- well, it's time to include trans, just based off the numbers.

And for the record, I have no issue with how you post or your leanings, and I don't apply malice or intent to anything you do here. I value your perspective, even if I don't agree with it (or when you purposely "other" me with extreme viewpoints to discredit me /JOKING ).
Being pedantic, but also offering something to chew on...we can fit into many groups at once. Labels can be just words or they can mean something. Some live by their labels and some don't. Got it.

But take someone who has a lot of hate in their heart. Being racist doesn't mean you are prone to violence. Being a racist incel doesn't mean you are prone to violence, but how much hate does anyone take before they snap and get their murder on? For some it is A subject, but for others it is "nickel and dime shit" which adds up to push them over the edge. Maybe we'll learn the motive, maybe we won't, maybe some people are just fucking crazy (did the Las Vegas shooter, the guy from the hotel, ever have a motive publicized?). We can put people into a box based on our own bias or agenda and that box might be accurate, but is it the only box?

And absolutely none of that is a firearms issue.
This.
 
They didn’t wait, they acted.

No shields, no body armor, no helmets.

At one point they had to step past a child (digitalized).

Fucking Heroes.

100%. Whoever the dude was that was wearing the body camera has my respect. Not only was he pushing the stack (he didn't let them slow down one time, called threats and doors, clear and aggressive), he also finished the fight non-verbally (by way of repeated measured shots) and protected his officers.
 
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