School/Mass shootings are now part of our culture.

[amlove21]

Not all vets are created equal, and I still think you would struggle to hire as well, even if you stuck to just combat arms MOS’s.

So the numbers were just for grins; I am not saying solely vets. I think it's a super basic solution (hardening the target) that can lead to an actual solution as opposed to the current cycle we are in. More of a simplistic look at "what are we actually doing" vs "what should we do".

The left does not want armed security in schools. My opinion? I believe it's a way to disarm Americans. Safety for our children is the line, folks see dead kids, they are ok with rights being taken away.

This (the bolded) is true, and it has always given me pause on this issue. The conversation (in my experience) just always goes the same. "WE HAVE TO STOP MASS SHOOTINGS AT SCHOOLS!" Uh, ok? so let's make the schools much harder to attack; mass shootings don't happen at sporting events, banks, airports etc NEARLY as much... we could arm teachers, we could arm guards... "NO WE HAVE TO GET RID OF ALL THE GUNS EVERYWHERE." Super frustrating.

If the end state is "less school shootings", wouldn't you want all options on the table? As opposed to one that isn't going to work? It's almost like they don't really want to fix the issue...

The issue of gun related violence is multi-faceted.

If we talk about mental issues, then it's a lack of healthcare that needs to be addressed.
If it's ease of access for people who shouldnt have weapons, then it's a lack of legislative barriers.
If it's soft targets, then it's a lack of security.

The problem is most people think they can throw all their chips into one solution, when it more than likely will take all of those (and more) to reduce.

Hit all of these. Take some of that Ukranian war budget @amlove21 brought up (and DOD budget at large, IMO), and chuck it at school security and mental health services.

If someone wants to try legislation, focus on behaviors and not weapons.

We'll probably never change the culture of violence solving issues, but that'd be a place to start too.

Hard agree here. Careful on your bolded; that looks real close to "America First", I would hate for that blue card of yours to get revoked

 

[Marauder06]

The cheapest ARs I recall were around $500. Now $500 won't get you an upper receiver.

As I understand, one of the issues the SCOTUS will have to figure out, is that you can't 'illegalize' guns of common use, and the AR is a common use gun. The argument has been struck down at the appellate level, but I think this is the crux of banning them, especially via EO.

Regarding this particular event, I heard on the news on the radio that the person also had plans for a second target, but abandoned it because of the security (based on information LE found). Let THAT sink in. Armed security at a potential target may be a deterrent.

The NFA didn't go into effect until 1934. Prior to that, it was a LOT easier to own a full-auto weapon. You could even legally buy a Thompson submachine gun (Tommy Gun) for like $200... although that doesn't account for inflation, which made it pretty spendy back in the day. But you could buy Colt semi-auto pistols from Sears (as well as a revolver with a built-in bayonet, see below). You could mail order semi-auto, magazine-fed rifles like the Winchester 1907 or an M-1 carbine. Those weapons were extremely affordable and available. Even though the population was significantly lower than it is now, we don't see the types of mass school shootings that we have seen in... say my lifetime. List of school shootings in the United States (before 2000) - Wikipedia

So what changed? It wasn't the availability of weapons; the NFA, various weapons bans, and the decision for numerous businesses to stop selling firearms has constricted the market in some ways. It's not the types of guns; as established, semi-auto pistols and rifles have been available for over a hundred years.

I don't have an answer to the question. But I don't think "assault weapons" or "modern sporting arms" or whatever we're calling them these days, is the main cause of what we're seeing in our schools.

 

[amlove21]

@Marauder06 , agree. weapons haven't changed in any real sense in a long, long time. Not the ballistics, type available, characteristics.

 

[Marauder06]

@Marauder06 , agree. weapons haven't changed in any real sense in a long, long time. Not the ballistics, type available, characteristics.

Others here will no better than I, but in some ways aren't some of the weapons actually weaker now? .45 vs. 9mm, .30 cal vs 5.56mm. So lethality (is? could be?) going down, weapons tech is largely the same, but shootings are up.

 

[Gunz]

So I have a serious question, could you buy an AR15 or similar rifle for under the equivalent of $300 anytime before the 2000’s? I wasn’t of an age to do so. And so I don’t remember it.

Edit- I found this -
“Manufacturing figures for AR-15 and AK-style rifles, minus exports, have exploded in recent decades, from fewer than 100,000 annually in the late 1990s—when many of those firearms were prohibited for civilian use under the 1994-2004 federal assault weapons ban—to more than 1 million every year since 2015.

NSSF’s figures include semi-automatic rifles produced for both civilian and police use, but exclude firearms used by the military, NSSF spokesperson Mark Oliva says.”

I’ve never owned an AR. I don’t like em. I was never crazy about M16s. But you probably could’ve bought a used AR-15 or AK for $300 back in the 1980s.

ARs became extremely popular after 9/11, fed by first person shooter games and the tacticool trend. I never bought into it with the exception of an M4 .22 that I bought for my son.

I’ve always preferred a nice walnut stock.

 

[Marauder06]

I’ve never owned an AR. I don’t like em. I was never crazy about M16s. But you probably could’ve bought a used AR-15 or AK for $300 back in the 1980s.

ARs became extremely popular after 9/11, fed by first person shooter games and the tacticool trend. I never bought into it with the exception of an M4 .22 that I bought for my son.

I’ve always preferred a nice walnut stock.

I bought my first SKS at a gun show in Fayetteville, NC for less than $100 many years ago.

 

[Marauder06]

Daily Wire Reporter Suspended From Twitter Over Story About Trans ‘Day Of Vengeance’ Scheduled For Same Week As Nashville Shooting | The Daily Wire

Luke Rosiak, an investigative reporter for The Daily Wire, was suspended from Twitter on Tuesday after he posted a link to a story about activists scheduling a transgender “Day of Vengeance” the same week of the shooting at a Christian elementary school in Nashville, Tennessee.

 

[Muppet]

I’ve never owned an AR. I don’t like em. I was never crazy about M16s. But you probably could’ve bought a used AR-15 or AK for $300 back in the 1980s.

ARs became extremely popular after 9/11, fed by first person shooter games and the tacticool trend. I never bought into it with the exception of an M4 .22 that I bought for my son.

I’ve always preferred a nice walnut stock.

You're an old school Nam Marine, I'm not surprised to see this (not a bad thing, I've heard lots of old school Marines say same).

I love my AR but also really love my Springfield M1A scout squad rifle with walnut.

 

[Kraut783]

Is it just me...or is that chick carrying two Kel-Tec 9mm carbines?

​

 

[Muppet]

Is it just me...or is that chick carrying two Kel-Tec 9mm carbines?

View attachment 41908

View attachment 41909

​

Definitely looks like it. Must be that "assault pistol" the fucking media were talking about

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Donut with the breakdown…

 

[ThunderHorse]

I’ve never owned an AR. I don’t like em. I was never crazy about M16s. But you probably could’ve bought a used AR-15 or AK for $300 back in the 1980s.

ARs became extremely popular after 9/11, fed by first person shooter games and the tacticool trend. I never bought into it with the exception of an M4 .22 that I bought for my son.

I’ve always preferred a nice walnut stock.

My old French professor who was in MAC-V-SOG who did advisory missions with Montagnards probably has the largest collection I've ever seen...no one AR. But plenty of things that also take magazines...anyone want to shoot a Martini-Henry that was used in the Zulu wars?

 

[DA SWO]

, Are all incels right wing? and are all transgendered individuals left wing?

Politics come in because left leaning media tries to portray all shooters as straight, white, Republican, male. Even when they are not.

Some flavor of transgender just shot a school up, no different to me then the incels shooting their schools up.

So I have a serious question, could you buy an AR15 or similar rifle for under the equivalent of $300 anytime before the 2000’s? I wasn’t of an age to do so. And so I don’t remember it.

Edit- I found this -
“Manufacturing figures for AR-15 and AK-style rifles, minus exports, have exploded in recent decades, from fewer than 100,000 annually in the late 1990s—when many of those firearms were prohibited for civilian use under the 1994-2004 federal assault weapons ban—to more than 1 million every year since 2015.

NSSF’s figures include semi-automatic rifles produced for both civilian and police use, but exclude firearms used by the military, NSSF spokesperson Mark Oliva says.”

Cheap AK's helped make "assault rifles " popular. Bragg in the 90's, all the stores sold AK's for about $100.00, compared to a $500.00 AR.
Guess what sold.
Clinton's ban spurred a quick boom in sales, and probably woke folks up vis-a-vis gun control.

 

[Blizzard]

Marine infantry veteran with Nashville police helped take down active shooter

 

[Muppet]

Marine infantry veteran with Nashville police helped take down active shooter
View attachment 41913

About time a good cop is shown. Abided by his oath to serve/save. He and others there are hitters.

It's a fucking shame it took 14 mins (not cops fault), those 14 mins, 6 were slaughtered because of "gun free zones".

OFC Collazo showed command presence, motivation to move his crew to the asshole.

 

[Blizzard]

 

[policemedic]

The cheapest ARs I recall were around $500. Now $500 won't get you an upper receiver.

As I understand, one of the issues the SCOTUS will have to figure out, is that you can't 'illegalize' guns of common use, and the AR is a common use gun. The argument has been struck down at the appellate level, but I think this is the crux of banning them, especially via EO.

Regarding this particular event, I heard on the news on the radio that the person also had plans for a second target, but abandoned it because of the security (based on information LE found). Let THAT sink in. Armed security at a potential target may be a deterrent.

We heard that was the preferred target. They went where they did because of a perceived lack of security.

 

[policemedic]

So, we spent $113B on Ukraine thus far.

There are around 100K schools in the US (estimated between like, 90-115K depending on what you call a school and whatnot). There are 450K vets in the country.

What if, and this is gonna sound insane, I know- we use a quarter of that total we spent in Ukraine, around $25B, to pay 4 vets per school about $55k a year to be a full time armed guard? That would be an extremely effecient deterrant, would it not? A vet getting $55k with super reasonable hours would be a good thing, would it not?

See also: Florida School Guardian program

 

[Blizzard]

An interesting listing of school shootings:
History of School Shootings in the United States | K12 Academics

 

[bvvanes]

School shootings are part of our culture now, they just are.

I would like to discuss what is that we as parents can actually do to try and protect our kids at school.

Recently I was surfing the net and saw bullet resistant backpacks.

There was a discussion at the cigar store a few weeks ago where one of the dads (who is a paramedic) made "blow out kits" for his teenage sons. They sit at the bottom of their backpacks and they know how to use it.

Do we talk to our kids enough about telling an adult if they hear of a kid or know of a kid who write "I'm killing everyone" or similar noise on their social media page?

In the case of the most recent shooting, the shooter pulled the fire alarms to get students out into the hallways. How should kids react? Fall down and 'play dead'? Hide?

Does any of the above even matter? I don't know. But I know that I 'carry' literally everywhere it is legal to do so, and sometimes in areas that may be a gray line. My kids do not have that option, as a dad who is charged with protecting my children, what am I doing to help put the odds in their favor at least a little bit?

Like mission creep, the morphing of evil knows no bounds. As most of us on this site will attest, evil is worldwide. I haven't been to a foreign country that didn't have some sort of police force for protecting the citizens, not for subjugating the citizens but for confronting people carrying out bad intentions. Schools are havens of the most innocent in society, that is a target rich environment for the spineless predators that walk amongst us. Violence is here as it was with Cain and Abel. We can confront it as all those on this website were trained to do, as we did with airline skyjackers, as we do with bank robbers etc. Or we can give them a pass, allowing us and our loved ones to be targeted as prey for their sick and twisted visions of brutality, horror and putative revenge on a society they hate and want to destroy. Some US cities have tried giving them a 'pass'. We see what happens. Masses cowering at home hoping they or their loved ones won't be the next target. At one time it was easy identifying the enemy, they were simply over 'there' not on the home front. Now days the domestic enemy doesn't hesitate to identify himself/herself by their actions on the home front. It's a simple calculus, pushback or get pushed. Fight back or get pommeled. Take the pathway of least resistance or stand for what you know is right. Food for thought: as I hear it there's never been a school shooting where the teachers were allowed a concealed carry nor has any of the bad outcomes of students disarming a teacher or taking a teachers' weapon away occurred. Anectdotally a recent survey comparing the 1990's to today found almost a 50% drop in patriotism and religious beliefs. Uhm.