SOF parachute into North Korea

Salt USMC

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US commandos parachuted into N. Korea: report

US and South Korean special forces have been parachuting into North Korea to gather intelligence about underground military installations, a US officer has said in comments carried in US media.
Army Brigadier General Neil Tolley, commander of US special forces in South Korea, told a conference held in Florida last week that Pyongyang had built thousands of tunnels since the Korean war, The Diplomat reported.
"The entire tunnel infrastructure is hidden from our satellites," Tolley said, according to The Diplomat, a current affairs magazine. "So we send (South Korean) soldiers and US soldiers to the North to do special reconnaissance."
"After 50 years, we still don't know much about the capability and full extent" of the underground facilities," he said, in comments reported by the National Defense Industrial Association's magazine on its website.
Tolley said the commandos were sent in with minimal equipment to facilitate their movements and minimize the risk of detection by North Korean forces.
At least four of the tunnels built by Pyongyang go under the Demilitarized Zone separating North and South Korea, Tolley said.
"We don't know how many we don't know about," he admitted.
Among the facilities identified are 20 air fields that are partially underground, and thousands of artillery positions.
In February, South Korea's Yonhap news agency reported that had built at least two new tunnels at a nuclear testing site, likely in preparation for a new test.
http://news.yahoo.com/us-commandos-parachuted-n-korea-report-212356834.html
I know Yahoo news is a paragon of journalistic integrity, but how much truth could there really be to this? Seems stupid to put it out in the open if its true. The other alternative, that this is a PSYOP move to spook the N. Koreans and make then look for Americans in every shadow, seems plausible, but I would think there are subtler ways to make a nation's Army paranoid. Hell, this is like saying to the world, "Yeah guys, we've got SOF up in North Korea! *wink, wink*".
 

JohnnyBoyUSMC

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My money is on PSYOP but still it wouldn't surprise me if it's true. That country is gonna self-implode before too long. When that happens expect a quick but nasty war with them or the country formerly known as N.Korea becoming part of China.
 

SpitfireV

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Giving North Korea the paranoid shakes wouldn't be a particularly wise move in and of itself.
 

SpitfireV

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When that happens expect a quick but nasty war with them or the country formerly known as N.Korea becoming part of China.


I can't agree with this I'm afraid. It's not in China's ethnic, economic or political interest to take DPRK under her wing.
 

AWP

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The history of running agents into NK is a pretty bleak one. Even in cases like Vietnam within a few years of the partition we didn't have a great deal of success (our OPSEC was also crap back then), so now we're regularly going into one of the most totalitarian countries on the planet?
 

JohnnyBoyUSMC

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I can't agree with this I'm afraid. It's not in China's ethnic, economic or political interest to take DPRK under her wing.

It is if it keeps a pro-American govt from controlling the entire peninsula, and they'd only go to such extreme lengths if the regime there was collapsing and about to "use em or lose em" with their nukes. The Chinese are happy playing the cold war chess game the Soviet's did with us, but the amount of economic trade and such they have invested with us makes nuclear war not something their gunning for.
 

SpitfireV

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It is if it keeps a pro-American govt from controlling the entire peninsula, and they'd only go to such extreme lengths if the regime there was collapsing and about to "use em or lose em" with their nukes. The Chinese are happy playing the cold war chess game the Soviet's did with us, but the amount of economic trade and such they have invested with us makes nuclear war not something their gunning for.

That game was played by both sides, remember. You have to remember that if they took on DPRK two things would happen: They would have to make them semi-independant (they couldn't take them in as a full provience) and this in itself would inspire the Uighers and Tibetians. Not to mention that they're not Han or part of the One China concept. All this would make it unlikely that they would take them on.

Politically they could run the N 1/3 and let the South have the rest. That would give them the buffer that NK now provides.

See above.
 

JohnnyBoyUSMC

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That game was played by both sides, remember. You have to remember that if they took on DPRK two things would happen: They would have to make them semi-independant (they couldn't take them in as a full provience) and this in itself would inspire the Uighers and Tibetians. Not to mention that they're not Han or part of the One China concept. All this would make it unlikely that they would take them on.



See above.


Well if/when the regime there collapses it'll either be war as a dying gasp from a failed regime, or a takeover of a country by it's bigger, stronger ally to keep other regional powers away from their borders. Least that's how I see it.
 

SpitfireV

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It won't collapse. There might be a small civil war but it would be short and brutal. And a China ally would be guaranteed to win.
 

JohnnyBoyUSMC

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Civil war I can see, though sadly it would probably like you said be brutal and end up pretty much destroying the N.Korean country/people. If we didn't have to worry about China reacting badly I'd say we help those people, though sadly many might not want helping due to decades of brainwashing. I've read lots on the history of that place and stories from people who escaped, it truly makes you appreciate living in a country like the US no matter how dumb our politics/laws can be sometimes.
 

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The North Korean state failing is something I am legitimately worried about. Don't get me wrong, Juche is stupid as hell and the people deserve better, but what happens when that whole apparatus collapses? What does re-unification mean for South Korea? About 25 million uneducated, malnourished, largely unskilled refugees with no infrastructure to support them. Unless South Korea has a giant, massively expensive social program in place to re-integrate North Koreans into modern society, you're going to have them living as second-class citizens in basically every surrounding country. All that will be available to them is menial labor, prostitution and crime. There's already a huge problem with human trafficking of refugees in China, and they only have approx. 11,000 refugees. Bump that number up a few times and you can imagine what the situation will be like then. If the refugees stay in the former NK territory, what is there to support them? Billions will need to be invested to bring the standards of living up to modern levels. It will take generations to bring the North Koreans up to same education and cultural level as their southern brethren. It is fortunate that they are ethnically homogenous and the language (I have heard) hasn't deviated too much, though this could've easily occurred in the 60+ years since the country separated.

I sure hope South Korea, and the international community at large, has a plan for dealing with this.
 

JBS

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Their medical system will get swamped, there will be homelessness in the cities of S. Korea like never in their history, and the standard of living will initially nosedive.

However, if managed properly through public works projects, the South could use the decade following such influx as a time of great infrastructure building, and a chance to forge an even stronger nation than ever before. Thousands of miles of new roads built inexpensively, millions of acres of new farms could be created, construction of new buildings, cleaning, renovation of public lands and parks, and greater security could be attained by means of thousands of new recruits.

If managed properly, the humanitarian crisis could be turned into a major win. But it would need coordination at the highest levels. A sea of humanity can be a great burden or it can be a great resource depending on outlook, planning, and preparation.
 

Etype

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Giving North Korea the paranoid shakes wouldn't be a particularly wise move in and of itself.
We should wait for a nice windy day and do the world's first parachute test dummy HAHO MASSTAC into N Korea. That way our planes would never be in their airspace, and they would have a bunch of convincing chutes lingering in the skies for just long enough to get the whole country's military mobilized to receive the invasion.
 

Etype

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Giving North Korea the paranoid shakes wouldn't be a particularly wise move in and of itself.
We should wait for a nice windy day and do the world's first parachute test dummy HAHO MASTAC into N Korea. That way our planes would never be in their airspace, and they would have a bunch of convincing chutes lingering in the skies for just long enough to get the whole country's military mobilized to receive the invasion.
 

JohnnyBoyUSMC

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The North Korean state failing is something I am legitimately worried about. Don't get me wrong, Juche is stupid as hell and the people deserve better, but what happens when that whole apparatus collapses? What does re-unification mean for South Korea? About 25 million uneducated, malnourished, largely unskilled refugees with no infrastructure to support them. Unless South Korea has a giant, massively expensive social program in place to re-integrate North Koreans into modern society, you're going to have them living as second-class citizens in basically every surrounding country. All that will be available to them is menial labor, prostitution and crime. There's already a huge problem with human trafficking of refugees in China, and they only have approx. 11,000 refugees. Bump that number up a few times and you can imagine what the situation will be like then. If the refugees stay in the former NK territory, what is there to support them? Billions will need to be invested to bring the standards of living up to modern levels. It will take generations to bring the North Koreans up to same education and cultural level as their southern brethren. It is fortunate that they are ethnically homogenous and the language (I have heard) hasn't deviated too much, though this could've easily occurred in the 60+ years since the country separated.

I sure hope South Korea, and the international community at large, has a plan for dealing with this.


They had these same legitimate fears when Germany was re-united. I'm not saying it's the exact same type of situation, but if anything perhaps they can adopt something similar to how the Germans were able to do it. South Korea already has govt departments and agencies who's sole purpose is deciding how best to bring about/deal with the ramifications of reunification. The talk of refugee's brought to mind Ghost in the Shell SAC: 2nd GIG (for those that haven't watched it, do so, great anime series).
 

DA SWO

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The North Korean state failing is something I am legitimately worried about. Don't get me wrong, Juche is stupid as hell and the people deserve better, but what happens when that whole apparatus collapses? What does re-unification mean for South Korea? About 25 million uneducated, malnourished, largely unskilled refugees with no infrastructure to support them. Unless South Korea has a giant, massively expensive social program in place to re-integrate North Koreans into modern society, you're going to have them living as second-class citizens in basically every surrounding country. All that will be available to them is menial labor, prostitution and crime. There's already a huge problem with human trafficking of refugees in China, and they only have approx. 11,000 refugees. Bump that number up a few times and you can imagine what the situation will be like then. If the refugees stay in the former NK territory, what is there to support them? Billions will need to be invested to bring the standards of living up to modern levels. It will take generations to bring the North Koreans up to same education and cultural level as their southern brethren. It is fortunate that they are ethnically homogenous and the language (I have heard) hasn't deviated too much, though this could've easily occurred in the 60+ years since the country separated.

I sure hope South Korea, and the international community at large, has a plan for dealing with this.

My understanding (of the boldface part) is yes, and for some time now.
 
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