Sua Sponte by dick couch

Perhaps you're right that wasn't the correct word. Maybe unflattering?

I remember there were more than a few excerpts in it that seemed ludicrous...like the initial ruck march, 6 miles, in PT gear, and with a preposterously light (I think it was 35 pounds) ruck along flat roads, with a plastic weapon. As I recall more than one of these ruch marches in training were in PT gear as well? As far as that goes I was just surprised to say the least. Fresh recruits in Marine Corps boot camp are expected to do, on their first hike, 5 miles in full cammies w/flak and kevlar, 40 pound ruck, and M16. The final hike recruits do is 10 miles with 60 pounds (everything they've been issued is in the ruck) and M16. And there is also steep hills, sand, and knee-high ocean tides to deal with...if you're a west-coast Marine. Of course in Infantry school it gets worse, I don't know what they do in recon...I'm sure it's retarded. Anyway, just thought it was an interesting comparison. Also, I expected the candidates to have better PT scores when they tested out before going to their battalion. Do you think their rather weak performance was from just being wore out from the course?

I want to put out there that I'm in no way trying to slam the Regiment or anything like that, I know exactly what you guys do and the shape you're in...which is why I just thought to ask.
 
initial ruck march, 6 miles, in PT gear, and with a preposterously light (I think it was 35 pounds) ruck along flat roads, with a plastic weapon.
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35lbs plus food and water, they usually come out to 45-50 lbs. I don't know if you have ever been to Ft. Benning, but most of the terrain is not flat, but rolling. Also, it's basically a run. I wouldn't compare it to a normal ruck march. You have to keep in mind that Mr. Couch had to tell the story with out giving away every single little detail about the training. It is a challenging course, and the selection process isn't over just because you graduate. They aren't looking for the same guy the USMC is, and they aren't looking for the same guy Recon is. They select the guys that they feel have the potential to be succesful in the 75th. Based on the success of the 75th thus far, I would say they are doing a pretty good job (but, as anyone who has been in batt. knows, there is always room for improvement).
 
Plastic weapon also equals rubber duck, which outweighs your issued M-4 by a couple pounds and has the added inherent feature of not needing an arms room to sign out whenever some douche pissed off the night TAC and you end up doing rifle PT till first call or 5 people quit, whichever comes first.

But that never happens, so it's not an issue.
 
My entire OSUT class did a 12+ miler with all our gear also, many guys that went from that class to RIP and failed. Putting a ruck on your back and walking isn't the most difficult thing in the world, and a rucksack with legs isn't necessarily a desirable trait. I just find it humorous that's what you picked out of the book.
 
goon175 said:
35lbs plus food and water, they usually come out to 45-50 lbs. I don't know if you have ever been to Ft. Benning, but most of the terrain is not flat, but rolling. Also, it's basically a run. I wouldn't compare it to a normal ruck march. You have to keep in mind that Mr. Couch had to tell the story with out giving away every single little detail about the training. It is a challenging course, and the selection process isn't over just because you graduate. They aren't looking for the same guy the USMC is, and they aren't looking for the same guy Recon is. They select the guys that they feel have the potential to be succesful in the 75th. Based on the success of the 75th thus far, I would say they are doing a pretty good job (but, as anyone who has been in batt. knows, there is always room for improvement).
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Very good post, thanks.
 
When I went through RASP our 6 miler was done in acu top and bottom, FLC with two 1 quart canteens full, the 2 quart canteen slung over your shoulder, also full, and your rubber duck. The rucks weighed around 45-50 dry before food and water. We didnt really pack for a target weight it was whatever was on the packing list we had to have in our ruck and the cadre chose candidates at random to dump their rucks afterword. The pace was also not a standard ruck pace. The majority of us were 11Bs that had been no strangers to rucking in Infantry OSUT and the 6 miler was a smoker. The majority of the time all of us were jogging/running/shuffling to keep up the pace.
 
Yeah the 6 miler is a run. At times it felt like a balls out sprint. Mine was personally around Lawson, so it was indeed flat and not the rolling hills we did for the 8 miler and 12 miler. The 6 miler is conceived as a warm-up. Many of us hadn't rucked in some time. Personally, I had a harder time keeping up with the 6 miler at times when old Pulliot or Mullinax was trying to break guys off than the 12 mile forced march(which I think should be standard rather than a release) we did later. That was no joke either though. It hurt. We actually had a guy get a heat stroke(Aug-Sept) on our 6-miler if that means anything to you. From what I understood he was going to get chaptered.
 
Yeah, August and September on Ft Benning is no joke. We had two guys go down on the 6 miler. Both ended up being dropped...one of them supposedly had a 106 temp and his kidneys started failing or something crazy like that. The 8 miler was crazier as far as the heat was concerned...for some god awful reason we stepped off at noon for that death march.
 
California.Kid said:
When I went through RASP our 6 miler was done in acu top and bottom, FLC with two 1 quart canteens full, the 2 quart canteen slung over your shoulder, also full, and your rubber duck. The rucks weighed around 45-50 dry before food and water. We didnt really pack for a target weight it was whatever was on the packing list we had to have in our ruck and the cadre chose candidates at random to dump their rucks afterword. The pace was also not a standard ruck pace. The majority of us were 11Bs that had been no strangers to rucking in Infantry OSUT and the 6 miler was a smoker. The majority of the time all of us were jogging/running/shuffling to keep up the pace.
Click to expand...

This^^^^^^^^. The only difference is the 2 quart is in our ruck now instead of on.
 
California.Kid said:
Yeah, August and September on Ft Benning is no joke. We had two guys go down on the 6 miler. Both ended up being dropped...one of them supposedly had a 106 temp and his kidneys started failing or something crazy like that. The 8 miler was crazier as far as the heat was concerned...for some god awful reason we stepped off at noon for that death march.
Click to expand...

Always rough to see that happen. Had a unseasonably warm day out at Pendleton when I was Regimental duty officer for 1st Mar Reg, and doing rounds came up to the BAS to find a mass casualty scene. A company commander with 2/1 decided to ruck his Marines back from the field. Had at least one bad sprained ankle, three heat exhaustion's, and one guy who had heat stroke and all sorts of internal damage. Don't care how well you hydrate or how bad ass you are, that shit can hit anyone hard and send em down even harder on a hot day.
 
dmcgill said:
Perhaps you're right that wasn't the correct word. Maybe unflattering?

I remember there were more than a few excerpts in it that seemed ludicrous...like the initial ruck march, 6 miles, in PT gear, and with a preposterously light (I think it was 35 pounds) ruck along flat roads, with a plastic weapon. As I recall more than one of these ruch marches in training were in PT gear as well? As far as that goes I was just surprised to say the least. Fresh recruits in Marine Corps boot camp are expected to do, on their first hike, 5 miles in full cammies w/flak and kevlar, 40 pound ruck, and M16. The final hike recruits do is 10 miles with 60 pounds (everything they've been issued is in the ruck) and M16. And there is also steep hills, sand, and knee-high ocean tides to deal with...if you're a west-coast Marine. Of course in Infantry school it gets worse, I don't know what they do in recon...I'm sure it's retarded. Anyway, just thought it was an interesting comparison. Also, I expected the candidates to have better PT scores when they tested out before going to their battalion. Do you think their rather weak performance was from just being wore out from the course?

I want to put out there that I'm in no way trying to slam the Regiment or anything like that, I know exactly what you guys do and the shape you're in...which is why I just thought to ask.
Click to expand...

The Marine standard for initial entry troops is exactly the same as the Army's with a 2.5 mile/hour pace. Yes, it is. Standards come out of the same manual. The rucks at RIP, save for the final 12 miler, are speed marches at 5+ mile/hour pace. The final 12 miler is 4 miles/hour.
 
I remember the road march being no joke. They held it only a few days into the course with no warm up marches and we carried the dry packing list (which came to about 40 pounds or so to ensure the 35 pound standard was met) plus an exorbitant amount of water and some MREs. We woke up extremely early and moved out to the mini O course, got smoked during the layout for various infractions, then they bused us out to a dark road and got us in formation and on the go with little delay. If you fell more than an arm's reach from the guy in front of you or talked or basically did anything aside from look forward and walk you got pulled from the formation to try your luck at the end of the line where the accordion effect was the most pronounced. We finished well before the standard time requirement of 3 hours and 84 candidates didn't make it. Only 14 retried the march and all of them passed. Maybe I was just younger then, or maybe I'm just romanticizing, but I remember it was made to be a challenge worth respecting.
 
i may be a little late on this but im reading that book right now. it is amazing. as for the information it seems as if its accurate, but i cant say for sure due to lack of experience.
 
In Sua Sponte Couch states that “Until the beginning of 2010, those entering the Army on Ranger contracts constituted a significant number of each RASP class. Since then, the number of these offered new recruits has been drastically reduced. In a review of its recruiting and training methodology, the Regiment decided that it would reduce those guarantees of Ranger training for new enlistees and focus on looking for promising candidates in OSUT and other BCT/AIT venues. This places the responsibility and burden of finding good men for the Regiment on Ranger recruiters, rather than leaving it to the Army recruiting stations across the country.” This is probably old news to the Rangers on this forum. I am aware of some graduation rate controversy from 2012, and have seen some argue that it's because Pre-RASP is better while others disagree. Could this "focus on looking for promising candidates in OSUT and other BCT/AIT venues" be a legitimate explanation for higher graduation rates? I think it would, but was curious if anyone has any take on this.
 
Of the few people I know that picked up a slot for RASP in Airborne, only 1 failed. He actually would have made it through easily but he was dropped for eating a protein bar that Cadre did not give us. Most guys I know that picked up contracts, ended up making through.

Pre RASP really isn't much a of a program. It's just a hold till a new RASP class starts. There isn't really any training, definitely no PT improvement. Pre RASP is just more time given to someone to mess up and be dropped/quit. Before my class started we had a health and welfare check. In PRE RASP/RASP no food/supplements can be in the barracks. So they did this check about a week before the class started and they dropped about 25 people. So I guess Pre RASP works by getting more motivated candidates to RASP.

We graduated 94 by the way.
 
RUBSUMLOTION said:
Of the few people I know that picked up a slot for RASP in Airborne, only 1 failed. He actually would have made it through easily but he was dropped for eating a protein bar that Cadre did not give us. Most guys I know that picked up contracts, ended up making through.

Pre RASP really isn't much a of a program. It's just a hold till a new RASP class starts. There isn't really any training, definitely no PT improvement. Pre RASP is just more time given to someone to mess up and be dropped/quit. Before my class started we had a health and welfare check. In PRE RASP/RASP no food/supplements can be in the barracks. So they did this check about a week before the class started and they dropped about 25 people. So I guess Pre RASP works by getting more motivated candidates to RASP.

We graduated 94 by the way.
Click to expand...

I always thought that was a prep for RASP?
 
RUBSUMLOTION said:
Of the few people I know that picked up a slot for RASP in Airborne, only 1 failed. He actually would have made it through easily but he was dropped for eating a protein bar that Cadre did not give us. Most guys I know that picked up contracts, ended up making through.

Pre RASP really isn't much a of a program. It's just a hold till a new RASP class starts. There isn't really any training, definitely no PT improvement. Pre RASP is just more time given to someone to mess up and be dropped/quit. Before my class started we had a health and welfare check. In PRE RASP/RASP no food/supplements can be in the barracks. So they did this check about a week before the class started and they dropped about 25 people. So I guess Pre RASP works by getting more motivated candidates to RASP.

We graduated 94 by the way.
Click to expand...

This information is much much appreciated.
 
No. It's just hold. The guys literally sit around all day and might be tasked for details every now and then. Prepping for RASP is on the individual.
 

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