Syria Gas Attack- What Now?

[amlove21]

Didn't work out too hot for GWB when we invaded Iraq. He went to congress AND had broad international support but still got hammered for war mongering.

Sure. But the President played this completely different this time- he hasn't made a decision, he put it entirely on Congress. Might play out differently.

That, and GWB was playing against the blue side, much better at playing the indignant "how DARE you!" card.

 

[goon175]

Sure. But the President played this completely different this time- he hasn't made a decision, he put it entirely on Congress. Might play out differently.

I'm not sure I agree with that, the administration has been pretty public about "doing something"

That, and GWB was playing against the blue side, much better at playing the indignant "how DARE you!" card.

Yup, totally agree there.

 

[amlove21]

Well- aren't they "doing something" now? Aren't they "encouraging conversations, and furthering the diplomatic process"?

 

[pardus]

Aren't they "encouraging conversations, and furthering the diplomatic process"?

LOL with who? Certainly not the Syrians or Russians.

 

[JHD]

I agree that is anyone should step in it should be the Saudis. Let them do it and pay the cost of it. They have more skin in the game, and we have none.

 

[surgicalcric]

Sure. But the President played this completely different this time- he hasn't made a decision, he put it entirely on Congress. Might play out differently...

I dont believe the President wants to get involved militarily but the Syrians called his bluff. I believe he is putting this back on Congress, not because he gives two shits about the democratic process or Constitution - Mr If Congress Wont Act I will, but because it gives him an out. In the end he can say, "Look I tried but Congress didn't have the balls to do it."

 

[Chopstick]

It has been over a year that Obama has been drawing red lines in the sand. And now with this further dilly dally on his part by dragging in Congress, it gives the Syrians plenty of time to move their assets around into areas where their citizens are being used at human shields. This is considered brilliant?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/01/us-syria-crisis-shields-idUSBRE9800EU20130901

This is in my opinion a very good analysis of the situation.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...bamas-unsteadiness-mr-president-this-/?page=1

And then of course this continued delay of a decision gives the Syrians additional time to sit around and hack our own USMC Website. What is next?
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/5...ectronic-army-hacks-marine-website-hacked.htm

ETA at the moment Marines.com is still down.

 

[0699]

The base of the argument is this- unfortunately, we are talking about human life. And you know what? That sucks. But does it suck enough, on a global scale, to risk the lives of our sons, brothers, mothers, sisters, fathers, friends? Again? I say this from the ground level, from the operational optic. No, I am not. I will employ and deploy my teams because that what we do. But if I was king for a day? If I got to make one decision? Humanitarian aid. Lots of it. Support the UN. Sanction the living shit out of Syria and the countries that align themselves with those that would kill innocent civilians. Medical care. But that't it.

I can't think of anything in Syria worth a single American life. Just like Iraq & Afghanistan, do we really think "intervention" will keep them from killing each other? Hell, it's like a regional sport.

 

[Blizzard]

I was having this conversation today- this is one of the smartest political moves I have seen the President's administration make. While some may take Chop's view of it (which, I want to point out, is completely legit and a good point), I think it is more interesting to look at it from the other side of the coin.

How genius was this move? In essence, here is what President Obama did- he looked at the last 5 (or so) major military engagements where the CINC made the call to strike, and studied the aftermath. The brouhaha that ensued? "The President acted alone! The President waged unlawful war and should be impeached!"

So what did he do? He adapted to that political inevitability and cut the naysayers off at the knees.

Look what this bought him. At the end of his tenure, in year 7 and 8, he gets to point to this and only wins. If he is seen poorly for it, his battle cry is "Look! I got hammered on this very thing before, and I wanted to be the first President that was transparent, the first President that was humble enough to ask for help, to use the full force of our political system- and I am bashed for it." He then gets to rail on about how mean everyone was to his administration, how he was damned if he did, damned if he didn't.

And what if Congress decides to go in? What if, on the recommendation of Congress, we bomb the living shit out of Syria, and we put boots on the ground?

"Well, America- I didn't unilaterally do this! I asked for help from Congress! Congress represents us all. We chose to do this. I didn't agree with it- but I am not the King of America, I am the President, and I have to follow checks and balances..."

In my opinion, this move was absolutely genius. Win win win, all the way around, with literally zero downside.

Well, except for innocent people dying in Syria while a bunch of white, rich American men pretend to give a shit about some brown poor people. But hey, topic for another post.

It's only brilliant if you buy into the notion that we should be doing anything in Syria. I don't.

I don't understand why POTUS continues to push the Syria issue. It makes no sense. He chose to insert himself into the issue and painted himself into a corner with his short-sighted comments, as he's done on numerous other unrelated issues. To make matters worse, as Freefalling stated in an earlier post, POTUS has tried to present this silly good guy vs. bad guy argument when the fact is they're all bad guys. Screw 'em. Let them kill themselves off for a bit.

 

[Blizzard]

Sure. But the President played this completely different this time- he hasn't made a decision, he put it entirely on Congress. Might play out differently.

Non concur. He's been very public about pushing our involvement. He's got Kerry out trying to sell it. The argument is weak and there is little public support for action (rightfully so). This is a very different situation than Iraq and certainly Afghanistan. When the Brits, Aussies, and Kiwis say "we're out", that should be a strong indicator that course correction is needed. Pretty much the only one on his side of the issue is France. As the saying goes, that dog don't hunt.

 

[Marauder06]

Do you really think that is going to end up being "zero"?
...

Closer to zero than any of the other options we're considering.

 

[DA SWO]

Sure. But the President played this completely different this time- he hasn't made a decision, he put it entirely on Congress. Might play out differently.

That, and GWB was playing against the blue side, much better at playing the indignant "how DARE you!" card.

Slightly Disagree, the Bamster has to ask Congress for permission, so if it goes bad they will (and they will) claim he didn't give them all the intel.

The Republicans should vote no/Present and let the Democrats pass the authorization, or put a rider that reduces spending in other non DHS Federal Agencies to pay for this; then let the Dems squirm.

 

[Marauder06]

Anytime we go to war, it needs to be in support of a vital national interest. One of OUR vital national interests.
The decision to go to war must include a specific, tangible desired endstate.
Anytime we go to war, which specifically includes this Syria thing, it needs to be authorized by Congress.
There should be a war tax that directly affects every American citizen for any war.
The draft should be instituted for any war that lasts longer than 90 days (which has been most of them).

 

[Scotth]

It's only brilliant if you buy into the notion that we should be doing anything in Syria. I don't.

The reason you get involved is it gives us a good excuse to take out Syria's chemical weapons stock piles. Are you happy with Assad having chemical weapons? How are you going to feel about the rebels having those stock piles if they win?

Look who the rebels are and that's why we should act now.

Congress isn't thinking strategically they are thinking only about political winning and losing.

 

[Scotth]

I wonder how may more innocent Syrians are going to die from Obama's brilliant political genius? And how many more Americans?

You can't blame Obama for the Syrian's who have died in the conflict and not support intervention. Your kind of batting from both sides of the plate on the issue.

 

[Totentanz]

Sure. But the President played this completely different this time- he hasn't made a decision, he put it entirely on Congress. Might play out differently.

That, and GWB was playing against the blue side, much better at playing the indignant "how DARE you!" card.

Of course, it seems like you've decided when your SecState can't contemplate that Congress might agree with the British House of Commons and disapprove military action.

ETA: And when you're reaching out to a former rival to sell Congress on the idea of intervention.

 

[AWP]

Assad's chemical weapons are only a problem if he doesn't control them. We could give him everything in storage at Dugway and it wouldn't matter. He's not dumb or hell-bent on martyrdom so he's not going to use them outside of his country. The danger is if he falls and the new management's approach to chem weapons.

Saddam, Assad, whoever...they aren't complete and utter morons like we like to paint them. Evil? Sure. Stupid? I don't think so. If they truly meant all of their "Kill Israel" rhetoric Israel would have been gassed already. The despots know the second they open that genie's bottle the 8th Air Force will channel Curtis LeMay for an urban renewal project.

I'm only worried about the nation's weapons in the hands of the "freedom fighters."

 

[Blizzard]

The reason you get involved is it gives us a good excuse to take out Syria's chemical weapons stock piles. Are you happy with Assad having chemical weapons? How are you going to feel about the rebels having those stock piles if they win?

Look who the rebels are and that's why we should act now.

Congress isn't thinking strategically they are thinking only about political winning and losing.

It's a civil war. Let them kill each other if they want.

 

[JHD]

Assad's chemical weapons are only a problem if he doesn't control them. We could give him everything in storage at Dugway and it wouldn't matter. He's not dumb or hell-bent on martyrdom so he's not going to use them outside of his country. The danger is if he falls and the new management's approach to chem weapons.

Saddam, Assad, whoever...they aren't complete and utter morons like we like to paint them. Evil? Sure. Stupid? I don't think so. If they truly meant all of their "Kill Israel" rhetoric Israel would have been gassed already. The despots know the second they open that genie's bottle the 8th Air Force will channel Curtis LeMay for an urban renewal project.

I'm only worried about the nation's weapons in the hands of the "freedom fighters."

Agree 100%. Sadistic sociopath dictator does not equal stupid dumbass with a death wish.

 

[Scotth]

I dont believe the President wants to get involved militarily but the Syrians called his bluff. I believe he is putting this back on Congress, not because he gives two shits about the democratic process or Constitution - Mr If Congress Wont Act I will, but because it gives him an out. In the end he can say, "Look I tried but Congress didn't have the balls to do it."

I don't know if people have really considered the down the road win this is going to be for Obama. Has anyone given thought to what Assad is going to do after the Brit's an American congress blocked intervention he is now free to do whatever he wants. He can let loose the dogs of wars with no fear of international intervention.

What will congress do then after saying no now? The President gets to stand there and say I told you so even though he never really wanted to get involved in the first place. I think any political win for congress is going to be very short lived and the Syrian situation is going to escalate substantially.