Syria Gas Attack- What Now?

[Marauder06]

Putin's letter to the American people:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/o...from-russia-on-syria.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[Chopstick]

Could this be why Assad appears to be so agreeable to the Russian plan?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...-bashar-assad-approved-chemical-attac/?page=1

If there was a rogue general that did it on his own accord, that would be a bigger problem for Assad, because that would imply that he does not have control of his own weapons,” said one senior congressional source familiar with U.S. intelligence assessments on Syria.

Some foreign policy insiders, meanwhile, said the lack of specific intelligence about who ordered the Aug. 21 chemical weapons attack is the main reason why top Obama administration officials — including the president himself — have in recent days carefully assigned blame to “Assad’s regime” rather than the Syrian leader personally.

Also I saw this piece in the Washington Post. Interesting.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...662d02-1add-11e3-82ef-a059e54c49d0_story.html

If Bush was so bad, then why did Obama lift so much of his speech making the case for military action in Syria from Bush’s speech making the case for military action in Iraq?

While imitation may be the sincerest form of flattery, it takes a special kind of chutzpah to plagiarize your predecessor while attacking him at the same time.

Of course, the imitation only went so far. After making the case for military action, Bush issued an ultimatum to the Iraqi regime. After making the case for military action, Obama announced he was deploying . . . Secretary of State John F. Kerry to meet with his Russian counterparts. Presumably Kerry will explain that if Assad fails to comply with Obama’s just demands, the Syrian dictator will face the consequences — a military strike that is “unbelievably small.”

Now that wasn’t lifted from George W. Bush.

 

[dknob]

Putin's letter to the American people:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/o...from-russia-on-syria.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

I'm going to get blasted... but I enjoyed reading it. I thought it was profound.
Although memory of the Georgia/South Ossetia conflict is still fresh in my mind.

 

[Rabid Badger]

I'm going to get blasted... but I enjoyed reading it. I thought it was profound.
Although memory of the Georgia/South Ossetia conflict is still fresh in my mind.

that's because dimlibs have the reputation to believe everything a cold war KGB agent has to say.... "Come over to our side, we'll take care of you and you'll have a great life in Moscow, no, we're not lying, everything you heard in the past were rumors".....

Obama took the 1st number, you're late to the party.

 

[AWP]

That was an excellent article by Putin with a few very good points. That doesn't mean I trust him, actions matter, but he's saying the right things.

Russia is winning the PR war and that article is a prime example. Our president fights to conduct operations unsupported by a majority of Americans while Putin memes wrestle bears and real Putin writes pieces such as the above. Putin appears to be measured and compassionate while Obama appears to be a war monger cut from the same cloth as Bush 43.

Most Americans can't identify a town or city in southern Georgia, US of A, much less anything about Georgia v. South Ossetia/ Russia in 2008. Without that bit of history behind them, those that read Putin's op-ed will think of him in a positive light. Besides, President Obama doesn't wrestle polar bears on the internet...

Putin's like a criminal in your neighborhood. If you never see him do anything wrong, if there's no crime in your 'hood, if he's quiet, polite and a good neighbor then over time is he really a criminal? Doubts form and you'll find yourself defending him "Well, I never saw him molest children/ steal/ murder."

I still believe that Putin smells blood and that it is American blood is a bonus. Putin ignores his or his country's role in Georgia, Afghanistan, and international arms trafficking and manages to make us look bad in the process. Winner, winner, potato soup dinner for the Russian.

Our children and grandchildren are goinig to pay for our foreign policy over the last decade.

 

[x SF med]

Excellent points Free - total agreement here.

 

[goon175]

I don't trust Putin, or most Russians, any further than I can throw them. That being said,

• That was a well written piece, and I agree with much (not all) of what he said.
• It was a brilliant move on his part to "write a letter to the Americans". As far as political moves go, it makes the Presidents punt to congress look like amateur hour in scale.

 

[reed11b]

Next this stupit fukn administration will announce the flight path and the exact times that they'll make the bomb runs...... :wall:

Of course! We want to limit civilian casualties don't we?
Reed

 

[DA SWO]

Of course! We want to limit civilian casualties don't we?
Reed

Worked for Clinton, right?

 

[Brill]

You all just got PsyOp'd by the Soviet propaganda machine.

Pooty Poo is an ex-KGB officer turned mobster who rose to become the boss of bosses. He may be in charge but he damn sure isn't a statesman: he's very good at covert operations including manipulating the press.

 

[Marauder06]

Nobody got psyop'd. It's possible to appreciate the man's work, while not buying any of it.

I think what he did was a brilliant political move on his part.

 

[Brill]

Nobody got psyop'd. It's possible to appreciate the man's work, while not buying any of it.

I think what he did was a brilliant political move on his part.

If you accredit that article to Vlad, who I assure you had no part in it, I have a low-mileage bridge you may be interested in: one owner and she was a little old lady who hardly used it. Heck, I'll throw in a free Car Fox!

 

[Marauder06]

If you accredit that article to Vlad, who I assure you had no part in it, I have a low-mileage bridge you may be interested in: one owner and she was a little old lady who hardly used it. Heck, I'll throw in a free Car Fox!

Stop being coy. If you have some tidbit of information that makes you smarter than all of the rest of us on this topic, then post it up.

I didn't accredit that article to Putin, the New York Times did. "But heads of state don't write their own speeches!" Yeah, got it. Noted. But they approve it. This op-ed was released by HIM, as part of HIS grand strategy. To assure me that Putin had "no part" in an article that his government, of which he is head, released in his name, without some very solid evidence to the contrary provided by you, smacks of both arrogance and naivety.

Russia is owning us on this Syria issue right now, and maneuvers like this, by Putin, are a large reason why.

 

[Brill]

If you have some tidbit of information that makes you smarter than all of the rest of us on this topic, then post it up.

Definitely not smarter (assured confident, yes) but would say I'm viewing from a different perspective. There is a ton of crap about this as well as Nagorno-Karabakh in the Russian press and how the US and the world are letting the Russians take the lead. Hell, there's actually calls for him to win the Peace Prize for "solving the Syrian crisis".

Also keep in mind, the average Russian is devoid of healthy skepticism of the press. Plus a news viewer seriously cannot go 5 minutes without hearing the words "President Putin": he is very much in control...because they said so...over and over and over. Uncle Vova is everywhere.

 

[Marauder06]

Definitely not smarter (assured confident, yes) but would say I'm viewing from a different perspective. There is a ton of crap about this as well as Nagorno-Karabakh in the Russian press and how the US and the world are letting the Russians take the lead. Hell, there's actually calls for him to win the Peace Prize for "solving the Syrian crisis".

Also keep in mind, the average Russian is devoid of healthy skepticism of the press. Plus a news viewer seriously cannot go 5 minutes without hearing the words "President Putin": he is very much in control...because they said so...over and over and over. Uncle Vova is everywhere.

I'm not following you on this one, brother. First of all, what exactly are you assured and confident about here? First you tell us we've all been psyop'd, then you imply Putin didn't issue the release attributed to him, then there's... this post. What does an obscure region of Azerbaijan have to do with an op-ed/press release in the New York Times? What does the Russian press have to do with it? Putin is eating our lunch internationally, regardless of any skepticism or lack thereof he's receiving back home.

And if he pulls off this "don't bomb Syria thing," then yeah, he's probably a contender for the Peace Prize. Especially since it puts him at odds with another Peace Prize holder, who is advocating war.

 

[SpongeBob*24]

I would imagine (no I don't have links, this is my opinion) that Russia, at least the poorer parts, is limited to what it can view!
So, yes Psyops is easy...I could be wrong but I think it was as much intended for his people as it was for us...but I don't know much!

"Hey you out there, tired of freezing to death staring at each other with nothing to do, too poor to afford TV......Uncle Putin has just what you need......free Sat TV with 2 Channels you always wanted."

Channel 1. Putin oiled up wrestling a polar bear, riding bare back on horses topless, pics with Tigers and lions and ninjas 12 hrs a day, the other 12 hours Putin has a cooking show with random Iron Chef guests
Channel 2. Putin is on 24 /7 talking about inventing the posted note, rotary engine and solving world hunger (thru his cooking show no doubt) and now....ding ding ding.....Putin wins the Nobel Peace Prize!!!!! Tune in next week for Putin to give you the Top 10 reasons Russia is better then America.....yes David Letterman stole that idea from Putin at a fund raiser back in the 80's!

 

[Brill]

I'm not following you on this one, brother.

The point I was poorly trying to make is that the Russians repeatedly and extensively manipulate their press with a pro-Russia and anti-US theme. After reading the article in the NYT, the tone of the article is exactly the same as in the Russian government controlled news sites. There has been a long history of OPED pieces where Russian scholars scold American politics but this has gone mainstream and bears the name of their President, which in my mind, was used to suggest legitimacy.

The US had taken the lead everywhere we could black Russia's eye (Georgia, ABMs in Europe, NK, etc) and now the tide is changing (or so it seems in the press). Western press has reported snippets but now the Russians are emboldened enough to thumb their noses at us on our turf.

Bottom line, I don't think the article was good but rather a piece of Russian propaganda whose sole purpose was agitate Americans.

Articles like these are the norm in Russia:

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/12-09-2013/125647-syria_truth-0/
http://www.sptimes.ru/index_bp.php?action_id=146&section=3&i_number=

 

[Marauder06]

The point I was poorly trying to make is that the Russians repeatedly and extensively manipulate their press with a pro-Russia and anti-US theme. After reading the article in the NYT, the tone of the article is exactly the same as in the Russian government controlled news sites. There has been a long history of OPED pieces where Russian scholars scold American politics but this has gone mainstream and bears the name of their President, which in my mind, was used to suggest legitimacy.

The US had taken the lead everywhere we could black Russia's eye (Georgia, ABMs in Europe, NK, etc) and now the tide is changing (or so it seems in the press). Western press has reported snippets but now the Russians are emboldened enough to thumb their noses at us on our turf.

Bottom line, I don't think the article was good but rather a piece of Russian propaganda whose sole purpose was agitate Americans.

Articles like these are the norm in Russia:

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/12-09-2013/125647-syria_truth-0/
http://www.sptimes.ru/index_bp.php?action_id=146&section=3&i_number=

OK-- now THAT was a good post. Good read, thanks.

 

[talonlm]

That was an excellent article by Putin with a few very good points. That doesn't mean I trust him, actions matter, but he's saying the right things.
<<SNIPPAGE>>
I still believe that Putin smells blood and that it is American blood is a bonus. Putin ignores his or his country's role in Georgia, Afghanistan, and international arms trafficking and manages to make us look bad in the process. Winner, winner, potato soup dinner for the Russian.

Our children and grandchildren are going to pay for our foreign policy over the last decade.

The best lie is one filled with truth, right? Propaganda is a game the US has never been good at. We make it easy to find fault with the line we're feeding other nations because we have an open society with a free press; partial-truths used to create propaganda are easily revealed and exploited. As for our children paying for our foreign policy, whose burden do you think we are carrying now? We can and should do a better job, but we're not going to get everything perfect, no more than our parents or any generation in the past did.

 

[Chopstick]

Apparently CIA supplied weapons are making their way to the Syrian Rebels. YAY!
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57602575/report-cia-delivering-arms-to-syria-rebels/

The CIA has been delivering light machine guns and other small arms to Syrian rebels for several weeks, following President Barack Obama's decision to arm the rebels.

The agency has also arranged for the Syrian opposition to receive anti-tank weaponry like rocket-propelled grenades through a third party, presumably one of the Gulf countries that has been arming the rebels, a senior U.S. intelligence official and two former intelligence officials said Thursday. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the classified program publicly.

Im sure they will be putting them to good use 'cause the rebels are the good guys!

http://lightbox.time.com/2013/09/12...-scene-of-utter-cruelty/?iid=lb-gal-viewagn#1

TIME obtained the images exclusively from a photographer who was recently in Syria. This decapitation was the last of four executions he documented that day. TIME has agreed not to publish the photographer’s name, to protect him from repercussions when he returns to Syria. What follows is an edited account of his experience: