Syria Gas Attack- What Now?

We definitely gain if Assads successor is friendly to the United States.

I say stay out not bc it isn't a worthy endeavor but rather bc the top end of State and policy makers are terrible at defining precisely end of campaign parameters and metrics.
Which Arab Nation is pressing for us to intervene?

Is Israel asking us to SLCM Syria?

Who gains (other then the Muslim Brotherhood) from Assad losing?
 
Just Google search"Russia warns the US. I'm sorry about terrible formatting and typos; on a mobile device. But the posture of Russia on Syria tells this tale and why what we do there is of major strategic importance.
 
The way the administration is talking it all seems pretty much a go for some kind of bombing campaign. I still don't buy Assad used the chemical weapons. I think the administration is going to go now to avoid the UN being able to make any report on who is responsible for the chemical attacks.

I hope they are able to take out the chemical weapon depots in Syria and get out and go to a convert effort. A weaken Assad is the enemy we know which is most cases is better than the religiously driven Muslim Brotherhood coming to power.
 
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The United States could hit Syria with three days of missile strikes, perhaps beginning Thursday, in an attack meant more to send a message to the Syrian regime than to cripple its military, senior U.S. officials told NBC News.

The disclosure added to a growing drumbeat around the world for military action against Syria, believed to have used chemical weapons in recent days against scores of civilians and rebels who have been fighting the government for two years.

In three days of strikes, the Pentagon could assess the effectiveness of the first wave and target what was missed in further rounds, the senior officials said.
 
It appears the White House will say the Assad regime perpetrate the chemical attacks. I hope they got it right because if it comes out later that the rebels launched the attack to draw in the international community there will be hell to pay and it will make no WMD in Iraq look like child's play. If it is true it makes Assad look like a moron.
 
Yeah, let's bomb the government to punish them for allowing the Rebels to kill people.

Exactly. When are people going to wake up and realize that the rebels include the same terrorists we've spent the last decade fighting!?
 
Exactly. When are people going to wake up and realize that the rebels include the same terrorists we've spent the last decade fighting!?

Part of our problem is that we view anyone who had a WMD used against them as the "victim" and the other person as the bad guy. Our binary calculus doesn't allow for "Sorry some bad stuff happened to you, but we still aren't helping out." Also like I mentioned in an earlier post, we reduce conflicts to a "good guy/ bad guy" equation when they are really just all bad guys.

I think we're also suffering from emotionally-induced amnesia. Muslim extremists have shown a total willingness and dedication to killing innocent civilians. VBIED, vest, IDF strike...the method doesn't matter. You VBIED a market and put that on CNN? Most Americans won't think twice about it, much less read the article, and they for damn sure won't call for a military respone. "Sucks to be you" is probably the most you'll get out of most Americans.

Replace that VBIED with a nerve agent and suddenly everyone wants blood and suddenly everyone assumes that Assad did this. There's no way someone would use a WMD on their own people, right? That's horrific! Sacre bleu cheese!

The West needs to wake up.
 
Forget the Syrians for one second.. But are WE (Western nations) really better off without him in power? I don't foresee many US-friendly successors.
 
Also like I mentioned in an earlier post, we reduce conflicts to a "good guy/ bad guy" equation when they are really just all bad guys.
Profound. W/permission, I'll use that elsewhere.

"Sorry some bad stuff happened to you, but we still aren't helping out."
I would adopt that part of your position as my own, but with an additional stipulation that we re-evaluate our "stay out" clause at such time as we can afford to do otherwise. We've stopped talking about money and our nation's capacity to spend, but it's a factor (or at least it should be). When we are flowing with cash again, we should then at such time reevaluate our commitment to intervention or lack thereof.



Forget the Syrians for one second.. But are WE (Western nations) really better off without him in power? I don't foresee many US-friendly successors.
This is the argument for us having "influence" on the outcome of which bobblehead eventually rises to the top of the heap. Right now forces friendly to us, and forces unfriendly to us are playing whack-a-mole with whoever rises up, but eventually some group or individual will emerge, and not without help from somewhere. When it does, we had better be on the right side of that event. Personally, I think the plight of Syrian civilians is, and always has been, a tertiary concern, if that.
 
Profound. W/permission, I'll use that elsewhere.


I would adopt that part of your position as my own, but with an additional stipulation that we re-evaluate our "stay out" clause at such time as we can afford to do otherwise. We've stopped talking about money and our nation's capacity to spend, but it's a factor (or at least it should be). When we are flowing with cash again, we should then at such time reevaluate our commitment to intervention or lack thereof.




This is the argument for us having "influence" on the outcome of which bobblehead eventually rises to the top of the heap. Right now forces friendly to us, and forces unfriendly to us are playing whack-a-mole with whoever rises up, but eventually some group or individual will emerge, and not without help from somewhere. When it does, we had better be on the right side of that event. Personally, I think the plight of Syrian civilians is, and always has been, a tertiary concern, if that.

The thing with Arabs and Arab countries...
they (and sometimes we) need Saddams, Assads, and Gadaffis to be in charge of these people.

What they (and we) don't need are Mohammed Omars, Khameneis, Ahmadinejads, and al-Bashirs.

And they ESPECIALLY don't need weaklings like Morsi and similar types (including the future successor of Syria).

Sad but true IMO
 
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Part of our problem is that we view anyone who had a WMD used against them as the "victim" and the other person as the bad guy. Our binary calculus doesn't allow for "Sorry some bad stuff happened to you, but we still aren't helping out." Also like I mentioned in an earlier post, we reduce conflicts to a "good guy/ bad guy" equation when they are really just all bad guys.

I think we're also suffering from emotionally-induced amnesia. Muslim extremists have shown a total willingness and dedication to killing innocent civilians. VBIED, vest, IDF strike...the method doesn't matter. You VBIED a market and put that on CNN? Most Americans won't think twice about it, much less read the article, and they for damn sure won't call for a military respone. "Sucks to be you" is probably the most you'll get out of most Americans.

Replace that VBIED with a nerve agent and suddenly everyone wants blood and suddenly everyone assumes that Assad did this. There's no way someone would use a WMD on their own people, right? That's horrific! Sacre bleu cheese!

The West needs to wake up.

Well stated. A large part of the problem with... well, everything... is that peoples' knowledge about certain subjects tends to be, at best, Wikipedia deep. What's worse, people tend to believe that they're a lot more informed than they really are, because they read something on the internet, without bothering to analyze the situation critically or to establish the validity of the information. That causes them to become wedded to a certain position, regardless of information to the contrary.

Too many people look at the fight between Assad, the "ruthless dictator" and the opposition, who of course have to be the "brave rebels." Guys, hate to break it to you, but sometimes the rebels are bad guys, too. What we have in Syria at the moment isn't a clear-cut case of "bad guy vs. good guy," we have "bad guy vs. worse guy." The question is, which side is the "worse guy" as far as US interests are concerned? Is it the Assad government, or is it the rebels? Which side should we back, if we even pick a side? Why isn't "merely monitor the situation for now" a viable course of action for so many Americans?

"But... but... people are dying!" Yes, that's true, and it's terrible. But that is the condition of much of the world. You know what kills more people every year than the entire war deaths of Syria? Disease in Africa. So why isn't the world focused on that? Why are the lives of Syrian children worth more to the international community than the lives of African children? Are America's interests best served by stamping out malaria in Africa, for example, or stamping out the Assad regime in Syria? For the record, I don't think it's the US's job to do either, I'm just providing some perspective and some food for thought.

I mentioned the "drowning child" analogy in an earlier post in this thread. I brought it up in class yesterday as part of a discussion with my students about the situation in Syria, and one of them opined, "but it's not just a drowning kid in Syria. It's two kids trying to drown each other. And no matter how many times you pull them out, there are always two more kids ready to jump in. And if you get in the middle of it, they'll try to drown you, too." I thought that was some pretty astute insight.

It looks like we are about to do "something" to Syria over the use of chem weapons. It apparently is going to mostly consist of some missile strikes, maybe in an extreme case a no-fly zone. I don't think we should do that, but I can see why others might logically agree with that course of action. It is important to note the "why," though. If we do anything at all in Syria, it ought to be done in order to secure our interests- whatever they are- instead of to secure the safety of the people of Syria.

I have yet to see anyone make a solid argument as to why we should undertake a large-scale military intervention in Syria which is based on anything other than emotion. Our resources are limited, and our interests are broad. For interventionists, I've seen a lot about the "how" we could go in, I have yet to see a good reason "why," or "what" the results will be and specifically what we stand to gain a nation if we intervene. I think those questions are infinitely more important than the "how."
 
One other thought is in light of the NSA debacle, the Second Amendment, the TSA, Fast and Furious, etc. why should we go to another nation and spill blood for their freedom when ours is eroding here at home? Shouldn't we have an excess of a commodity before we export it?
 
Well, looks like the interventionists got their wish.

IKIS

DAMASCUS — The U.S. military took an unusual move Tuesday with the deployment of two battalions... to the Syrian capital, in an attempt to depose Bashar al-Assad. According to Pentagon planners, Operation: Softening Blow will give the rest of the military an edge over Syrian forces, by softening up defensive positions. “We think this is a step in the right direction and a humanitarian way of dealing with these people,” said Pentagon spokesman George Little."
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Read more: http://www.duffelblog.com/2013/08/airsoft-syria-attack/#ixzz2dD6hh2ti
 
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