The Trump Presidency 2.0

[Devildoc]

I understand...but, I don't think the treaty had an expiration date on it.

The let's really back it up with teeth and send US troops over. In for a penny, in for a pound, ammirite?

When this thing kicked off I was all-in on Ukraine. And I am all for them defending their sovereignty, even though Zelensky is also a dictator, and their government is also corrupt. The scales have fallen from my eyes, I see the money laundering that has gone on, I have seen Zelensky look good while parading about and canceling elections (now that's not a dictatorial move is it?), I have seen Europe letting the US "be a leader" (code for having us do more and pay more), all for......?

 

[TLDR20]

Are you OK with what we've given them? It's OK see see audits turn up billions of misspent money or "we don't know where that money went", all the while the great leader galivants around the US and Europe to show up on covers of magazines, go to awards shows, and be strutted around like a peacock? So no end: give them whatever they want until someone taps out or is vanquished? Full steam ahead, bad money after good.

Nah, I'm good. Leadership is hard. Sometimes telling someone "we've done what we can do" and stepping back and letting them sort it out is leadership.

All of Europe combined has given $132 billion. The US alone has given about $114 billion. How about we meet in the middle: an operational and financial pause while we audit the money and results, in the meantime let Europe pick up the slack.

I’m ok with fighting a proxy war against the Russians and bleeding them out for every inch of the Ukraine. I find it difficult to put a price tag on that.

 

[amlove21]

I know you are very pro-Trump so I appreciate you and those like you who don't rubber stamp the Administration's actions. Sometimes our tribes are indeed wrong and not every decision or action is a W.

Yeah, just a point of clarification here- I am not "Very pro-Trump"; I am very "pro-conservative." I think in the (very false) binary we are confronted with, the conservative movement is what's best for America and the only ideology that preserves and supports our American way of life and values.

I am not "progressive" because I think burning our institutions down in favor of some ridiculous utopia is not only idiotic but toxic to the values, morals, and way of life in our country. I don't like Republicans, or Democrats, or politics in general. I am an outputs/spreadsheet guy. Do what's best for the country, protect American interests first and at all costs, everything else is secondary. If you're John Fetterman and you say a true and valuable thing, then I support Fetterman on that issue. The problem is the focus pool of calm, rational democrats making decisions or positions that support America are so few and far between I don't get a chance to highlight those. Ro Khanna approximates sanity on most things- the problem is the things (like his stance on trans issues and the like) is so far afield for me that I have trouble supporting him as a person, because there are red-line issues with me, and our children is the biggest one.

Politics is a bus- I don't care who the bus driver is; I want to get where I am going, and if the bus starts going further away from my destination, I am out. I have just been put in this pro-Trump category because he's the man driving the bus at the moment. In 4 years, I hope you'll say I am very pro-Vance. And I know I constantly highlight dem failures. Still, I would have time to highlight republican failures if I wasn't distracted by the fact that at the heart of it, republicans make memes that upset a sect of society. At the same time, the democrats desperately want to destroy the family structure, label "whites" as the devil, and chemically castrate kids without their parent's consent.

I give exactly zero fricks about the republican party as a whole, and most of the parts piss me off. Republicans have harmed America in irreparable ways as well, primarily due to their inaction and adherence to the "we are not going to play the same game as the Democrats even though they've been smoking us in every conceivable category for the last 20 years" nostrums. It's ridiculous to think you're winning a game no one else is even playing. That worm is turning now, and I am here for it, as long as they keep getting me where I want to go.

But yeah, the Trump schtick with Ukraine is stupid, but there are going to be misses.

 

[Devildoc]

Yeah, just a point of clarification here- I am not "Very pro-Trump"; I am very "pro-conservative." I think in the (very false) binary we are confronted with, the conservative movement is what's best for America and the only ideology that preserves and supports our American way of life and values.

I am not "progressive" because I think burning our institutions down in favor of some ridiculous utopia is not only idiotic but toxic to the values, morals, and way of life in our country. I don't like Republicans, or Democrats, or politics in general. I am an outputs/spreadsheet guy. Do what's best for the country, protect American interests first and at all costs, everything else is secondary. If you're John Fetterman and you say a true and valuable thing, then I support Fetterman on that issue. The problem is the focus pool of calm, rational democrats making decisions or positions that support America are so few and far between I don't get a chance to highlight those. Ro Khanna approximates sanity on most things- the problem is the things (like his stance on trans issues and the like) is so far afield for me that I have trouble supporting him as a person, because there are red-line issues with me, and our children is the biggest one.

Politics is a bus- I don't care who the bus driver is; I want to get where I am going, and if the bus starts going further away from my destination, I am out. I have just been put in this pro-Trump category because he's the man driving the bus at the moment. In 4 years, I hope you'll say I am very pro-Vance. And I know I constantly highlight dem failures. Still, I would have time to highlight republican failures if I wasn't distracted by the fact that at the heart of it, republicans make memes that upset a sect of society. At the same time, the democrats desperately want to destroy the family structure, label "whites" as the devil, and chemically castrate kids without their parent's consent.

I give exactly zero fricks about the republican party as a whole, and most of the parts piss me off. Republicans have harmed America in irreparable ways as well, primarily due to their inaction and adherence to the "we are not going to play the same game as the Democrats even though they've been smoking us in every conceivable category for the last 20 years" nostrums. It's ridiculous to think you're winning a game no one else is even playing. That worm is turning now, and I am here for it, as long as they keep getting me where I want to go.

But yeah, the Trump schtick with Ukraine is stupid, but there are going to be misses.

I used to be registered Republican. Now I am unaffiliated (i.e., independent). I pretty much agree with most of what you said.

It took Trump turning on the lights to see the cockroaches, and now we know who the cockroaches are. I am OK with him stomping on them (metaphorically, of course). Trump's general agenda aligns more with mine, so in that light, I am pro-Trump. I do NOT like the way he communicates, belittles, talks down, etc. As for as his personal life, who am I to judge? But if it was someone else promoting that agenda, I'd be backing that horse.

I agree with the assertion of the binary choice, which I also dislike. Gone are days of the blue dog democrats and dixiecrats and the moderate Republicans. I never agreed with all of them on everything, but could agree with most of them on many things, and as an, ah, older adult, married with kids, I like to think compromise is an important virtue, which seems all but extinct.

I do not care for Trump cozying up to Putin, but I am OK with evaluating our position on Ukraine ad trying to find a way out (because no one else is interested).

 

[DA SWO]

Then the US should not have made a treaty with Ukraine to protect them, when they agreed to give up their nukes.

It was a memorandum, Ambassador Blinken (Anthony Blinken's dad) helped negotiate the agreement.
"W" did nothing when Russia attacked the country of Georgia, and IMO this told Putin the west wouldn't care if he annexed the Ukraine.
Obama's (material) aid package to the Ukraine was a joke, and we don't know how much of the $1.0B Hunter and Joe got as kick backs.
Trump's package was much better (Javelin ATGM for example), but still had the "defensive use only" tag.
Biden (and Europe) didn't turn the money spigot on until just before the invasion.
IMO, Biden purposely added caveats that were designed to lengthen the war, and not allow a Ukrainian victory.
We now have a WW I style meat grinder, Russia can lose more than the Ukraine can, and that strategy ultimately dooms the Ukrainian side.
The Ukrainians haven't gone to a full-mobilization either, so how dire can it be?

So explain to me again why continuing the war is good for the American Taxpayer?

 

[Topkick]

do not care for Trump cozying up to Putin, but I am OK with evaluating our position on Ukraine ad trying to find a way out (because no one else is interested

I don't see it as cozying up, I see it as America first and the only way out.

 

[Devildoc]

I don't see it as cozying up, I see it as America first and the only way out.

I dig the negotiations but I do think he's being overly-friendly with Putin. Sends a bad message. IMO.

 

[amlove21]

At CPAC.

I love this game! I would post the graphic depictions of oral sex my attached pics, but that might offend some of our very delicate sensibilities.

Not the sensibilities of the children (thousands of them nationwide who had access to this book in their school library) but, you know, the grown adults here.

To my point above- this is the issue. One side loves to highlight "threats to democracy" and every wack-a-doodle theory (Project 2025/2028) as if they're widely accepted by the right and not published by tangental think tanks not associated with the actual conservative movement, and one side actively fights to have our kids read some soft porn and then decry "book banning" and the death of freedom of speech when conservatives fight to keep the issues of top surgery, chemical castration and oral sex away from kids.

What I am saying, between the two books- which serves America better? Which harms America more? These questions are rhetorical, of course, but a republican president makes a mean cartoon with a crown on and poeple act as if our very moral fiber is being torn apart. A democratic president designates Easter the "trans day of visibility" and then has the audacity to take a selfie with a male who bared his fake breasts on the White House grounds.

THAT'S why I am so "pro-Trump".

***To be clear, @TLDR20 I am in no way saying you're either side, I am not saying you agree with anything, I am using the book you posted to clarify further my previous distinction of the ideologies of the left and the ideologies of the right. It's nothing personally aimed at you.***

 

[ThunderHorse]

I have mixed feelings. Ukraine was invaded, they have every right to fight for their country. Putin is an ass, Russia is NOT our friend.

But. But we shouldn't underwrite and fund their war. At least not until we pay for our obligations first. We're not the world's police or banker.

WE made them give up their nukes. When was the last country that had nukes was invaded? Before they had nukes. So with that we need to deliver against the evil that is Russia.

I don't see it as cozying up, I see it as America first and the only way out.

America first is getting someone else to bleed the population of our enemies. Guess we need someone like Mongolia or Vietnam to get into a shooting war with China...

 

[Devildoc]

WE made them give up their nukes. When was the last country that had nukes was invaded? Before they had nukes. So with that we need to deliver against the evil that is Russia.

We played the Godfather and made an offer they couldn't refuse. But to what end? How fucked up does this country have to become to pull back some of that $? Or all in, all the time? Cool.

 

[TLDR20]

I love this game! I would post the graphic depictions of oral sex my attached pics, but that might offend some of our very delicate sensibilities.

Not the sensibilities of the children (thousands of them nationwide who had access to this book in their school library) but, you know, the grown adults here.

To my point above- this is the issue. One side loves to highlight "threats to democracy" and every wack-a-doodle theory (Project 2025/2028) as if they're widely accepted by the right and not published by tangental think tanks not associated with the actual conservative movement, and one side actively fights to have our kids read some soft porn and then decry "book banning" and the death of freedom of speech when conservatives fight to keep the issues of top surgery, chemical castration and oral sex away from kids.

What I am saying, between the two books- which serves America better? Which harms America more? These questions are rhetorical, of course, but a republican president makes a mean cartoon with a crown on and poeple act as if our very moral fiber is being torn apart. A democratic president designates Easter the "trans day of visibility" and then has the audacity to take a selfie with a male who bared his fake breasts on the White House grounds.

THAT'S why I am so "pro-Trump".

***To be clear, @TLDR20 I am in no way saying you're either side, I am not saying you agree with anything, I am using the book you posted to clarify further my previous distinction of the ideologies of the left and the ideologies of the right. It's nothing personally aimed at you.***

This stuff definitely pushed me away from the left. There was a time when I thought being accepting of whatever was all they wanted, but they pushed too far for me.

 

[Topkick]

America first is getting someone else to bleed the population of our enemies. Guess we need someone like Mongolia or Vietnam to get into a shooting war with China...

No need for me to respond again. The below posts covered my thoughts. America first is not spending money in Ukraine...and why do we need to get into a proxy war with China?

I see the money laundering that has gone on

It was a memorandum, Ambassador Blinken (Anthony Blinken's dad) helped negotiate the agreement.
"W" did nothing when Russia attacked the country of Georgia, and IMO this told Putin the west wouldn't care if he annexed the Ukraine.
Obama's (material) aid package to the Ukraine was a joke, and we don't know how much of the $1.0B Hunter and Joe got as kick backs.
Trump's package was much better (Javelin ATGM for example), but still had the "defensive use only" tag.
Biden (and Europe) didn't turn the money spigot on until just before the invasion.
IMO, Biden purposely added caveats that were designed to lengthen the war, and not allow a Ukrainian victory.
We now have a WW I style meat grinder, Russia can lose more than the Ukraine can, and that strategy ultimately dooms the Ukrainian side.
The Ukrainians haven't gone to a full-mobilization either, so how dire can it be?

So explain to me again why continuing the war is good for the American Taxpayer?

 

[DA SWO]

I dig the negotiations but I do think he's being overly-friendly with Putin. Sends a bad message. IMO.

LOL.
Did you forget Obama's hot mic event.
I'll have more flexibility after the elections.
Did that send a bad message? or is it o.k. for a Democrat to cozy up to Putin.
How about Biden letting Xi run over him? Did that cause a media frenzy?

 

[GOTWA]

We might have allies, but overall, we have interests. Those interests need to be prioritized. I don't think the Ukraine/Russia war front is at the top of our priority list; it's China.

 

[RackMaster]

WE made them give up their nukes. When was the last country that had nukes was invaded? Before they had nukes. So with that we need to deliver against the evil that is Russia.



America first is getting someone else to bleed the population of our enemies. Guess we need someone like Mongolia or Vietnam to get into a shooting war with China...

If we let them keep the nukes, the Cartels would have nukes... that's not hyperbole.

 

[TLDR20]

If we let them keep the nukes, the Cartels would have nukes... that's not hyperbole.

Man that is a slippery slope if I have ever seen one.

 

[RackMaster]

Man that is a slippery slope if I have ever seen one.

In the early days they would have sold anything not bolted down to the highest bidder. There's a reason they weren't left there. Ukraine, just like all the former Soviet states were corrupted beyond comprehension. It still lingers to this day, it's cultural.

 

[Devildoc]

LOL.
Did you forget Obama's hot mic event.
I'll have more flexibility after the elections.
Did that send a bad message? or is it o.k. for a Democrat to cozy up to Putin.
How about Biden letting Xi run over him? Did that cause a media frenzy?

I've forgotten none of those things. I don't like Putin any more/less than Zelensky and Xi. I am fair and consistent in my hate.

 

[Topkick]

In the early days they would have sold anything not bolted down to the highest bidder. There's a reason they weren't left there. Ukraine, just like all the former Soviet states were corrupted beyond comprehension. It still lingers to this day, it's cultural.

A lot of Ukranians were fine with being governed by Russia and we were not in danger of war with Russia before this corrupt, Money laundering war was facilitated by certain individuals. My opinion is upopular, but I'm with JD Vance. Ending this war is ultimately in the best interest of the U.S.

 

[ThunderHorse]

We played the Godfather and made an offer they couldn't refuse. But to what end? How fucked up does this country have to become to pull back some of that $? Or all in, all the time? Cool.

As it relates to Grand Strategy, it has always been in the interests of the United States to bleed the Russians. Not that any executive understands Grand Strategy.

So far this war has costs us not a whole lot.