The Trump Presidency 2.0

AWP said:
In IT we have brain dumps where you memorize the test, get a certificate without learning, and move on...but you have the cert that says you know something. That's the FCAT and its ilk: paper certs.
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This is pretty much what NCLB established.

If states wanted federal funds for schools, they had to develop standardized tests.
States/school districts realized "teaching to the test" creates better (on paper) outcomes, so everything revolves around that.
 
AWP said:
What we saw in FL: When I was in school, graduating in 91, we had a standardized test, but it was a "progress report" type of thing. You're in grade x and you're reading at a grade y level. Grades for teachers and students alike were based on...your actual schoolwork.

Maybe it was NCLB, but now FL teachers and schools are graded on Florida's universal test, the FCAT. Teachers openly teach to the FCAT and once that test is over, students start summer break earlier, only in class. Some classes and schools conduct their field trips, watch movies, play games...classwork is secondary to everything else. The FCAT rules supreme.

In IT we have brain dumps where you memorize the test, get a certificate without learning, and move on...but you have the cert that says you know something. That's the FCAT and its ilk: paper certs.

That to go. I don't know crap else about the state of education in America, but those have to go. I know 10 or so teachers from 3rd to 12th grade and several retired principals, and not a single one approves of comprehensive tests like the FCAT.

Those tests need to be a cherry blossom in Japan the first two weeks of August 1945.
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So in California, we had STAR testing. If you were in AP classes in high school you didn't do STAR testing because that was considered beyond grade 12. So like I still did plenty of testing in high school, just didn't do a single STAR test after my sophomore year. Now, STAR testing was used to determine a lot of things. My Star testing got me into Advanced Math for the 6th grade...everything in STAR tests changed, but were tied to the global curriculum set for that specific grade. Let's say you were in the 9th grade and weren't even in Algebra...well you're either taking the geometry test or the test for a 7th grader...

Now, I think standards have actually dropped since I graduated high school considering the amount of Soldiers I had who were straight clownshoes. And then the amount of kids we have in our league who can't even sign their own contract let alone tie their shoes.
 
amlove21 said:
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lulz at that IG post

"Average salary" doesn't consider the cost of living and a host of other things. That's a horribly bad metric to use and I'm not shitting on you. That post or take is bad. Teachers where I grew up and a radius of counties had summer jobs to pay the bills.

If anyone wants education reform, education overhaul, support year round schools with teacher salaries to match. Start there. Want to go all in? End daylight savings time.
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Laugh at me all you want, but year round schools with no daylight savings time and this problem solves itself at the local level (the local level is the solution here) within 5 years.
 
AWP said:
lulz at that IG post

"Average salary" doesn't consider the cost of living and a host of other things. That's a horribly bad metric to use and I'm not shitting on you. That post or take is bad. Teachers where I grew up and a radius of counties had summer jobs to pay the bills.

If anyone wants education reform, education overhaul, support year round schools with teacher salaries to match. Start there. Want to go all in? End daylight savings time.
-----
Laugh at me all you want, but year round schools with no daylight savings time and this problem solves itself at the local level (the local level is the solution here) within 5 years.
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Make Teachers take a competency test in the subject they teach and I am in.
Problem with tossing money at teachers is crappy teachers with seniority stay and continue to put out substandard work.
 
ThunderHorse said:
I can't really tell the tone of this. The purpose of the Federal Department of Education is a governance office. They enforce the law. I suppose we can give what they do to the FBI and stuff.

The reason children can't read in Illinois is a Springfield problem. The reason children graduate without being able to do simple math in Florida is a Tallahassee problem.

Associations do the credentialling for schools. Then state Departments of Education are the ones who administer the laws but actually do things. Fuck up really bad, the state takes over your school, fuck up worse? Maybe they take over your district. And I can tell you most of the time that cycle is hard to break out of. So whose at the local level in Illinois for those 30 odd schools? The School board, probably Democrats who want to push things like Diversity, Equity, and inclusion.

There are plenty of other things to do, less welfare entitlements for people who drive escalades and buy beer with their EBT.
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I’ll preface this with I don’t care about the department of education. However, I think education is a national security issue. I don’t think the states have a vested interest in National security and thus do not have a vested interest in education. The federal government should imo require a baseline competency, so that states cannot just write off education. I don’t know how to actually enforce this. If our populace is too dumb and fat to fight our wars I don’t think we need them to be even dumber. I think the varying levels of education even by county is insane. Where I live the public schools are enormously better 3 miles away from me than where I live. Like best in the state to middle of the pack or worse.

If we want to remain at all a global power we should be investing in education not stripping it. However I know that the DOE has little to actually do with how things are run or administered at the local level.
 
TLDR20 said:
I’ll preface this with I don’t care about the department of education. However, I think education is a national security issue. I don’t think the states have a vested interest in National security and thus do not have a vested interest in education. The federal government should imo require a baseline competency, so that states cannot just write off education. I don’t know how to actually enforce this. If our populace is too dumb and fat to fight our wars I don’t think we need them to be even dumber. I think the varying levels of education even by county is insane. Where I live the public schools are enormously better 3 miles away from me than where I live. Like best in the state to middle of the pack or worse.

If we want to remain at all a global power we should be investing in education not stripping it. However I know that the DOE has little to actually do with how things are run or administered at the local level.
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I agree with all of this. I know I've talked about this in the past, but the cost of schooling needs to be addressed. For sake of discussion, I think STEM in college should be free, along with the trades. But I also believe that in order for it to be free, people can't half ass it. Failure should come with a cost to ensure theirs some skin in the game. Free isn't for checking the box, it's for purpose.

Now, how do you educate your populace to be ready for college? Punish bad teachers? Are their enough others to pick up the slack? Federal assistance for higher performing teachers? Keep kids in school longer if they're not meeting a standard? Should parents be held accountable? Should we graduate everyone at 18 or do we move the goal posts a bit so we train to standard?

To invest in education you also have to invest in culture. You should see the behavior of some of the kids within the Los Angeles school system, but that shit starts at home.
 
TLDR20 said:
I’ll preface this with I don’t care about the department of education. However, I think education is a national security issue. I don’t think the states have a vested interest in National security and thus do not have a vested interest in education. The federal government should imo require a baseline competency, so that states cannot just write off education. I don’t know how to actually enforce this. If our populace is too dumb and fat to fight our wars I don’t think we need them to be even dumber. I think the varying levels of education even by county is insane. Where I live the public schools are enormously better 3 miles away from me than where I live. Like best in the state to middle of the pack or worse.

If we want to remain at all a global power we should be investing in education not stripping it. However I know that the DOE has little to actually do with how things are run or administered at the local level.
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I think Dept of Ed should review origin of F1 visa applications and submit opposition letters to USCIS when someone is from like China, or is a clearly likely a terrorist...
 
ThunderHorse said:
A lot of lazy bureaucrats making 144k/yr.

But aren't we also talking about how shitty DOGE and OPM are faffing with @AWP @Cookie_ and @Marauder06 ?

Get rid of the ATF and any agency's ability to regulate firearms through administrative regulation. ATF had 6,000 employees/agents. There you go, saved you money and got rid of bureaucrats.
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Don’t worry, we will get to the ATF. Let’s focus on DeptEd for now.
 
amlove21 said:
Don’t worry, we will get to the ATF. Let’s focus on DeptEd for now.
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"We?"

Hmmm... if DOGE has all of the big brain smart people we keep hearing about why can't they run both simultaneously? Government fails in parallel, but DOGE can't succeed in parallel?

DOGE is running relatively basic SQL queries and we've seen that. What are they doing with that data? If we want to talk about nuances in polls, what about nuances in DOGE's queries? Is DOGE saying "cut x, y, and z" which is rubberstamped or are those results going to the Departments who are making impartial and informed decisions? We already saw how DOGE and DoD tried to subvert the USC with its intended firing of probationary employees.

People can accept an end state if they understand the process or "how."

"Just trust us" isn't an American virtue or trait.

And the ATF needs to be gutted/ overhauled. The NFA tax stamp is a beacon in the night deserving to be snuffed out.
 
AWP said:
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So I think we are using DOGE as the buzzword for "all reform inside government" now, and that's not correct. DOGE has a specific, tailored, and express purpose- complete with a goal ($2T) and a timeline (July 4th, 2026). No government agency in our history has such a clearly stated task, purpose, and end state.

Why would DOGE hit the ATF? What programs are they running that fit the purpose of DOGE? I could see if there is corruption in spending or fraud, waste, or abuse. Agents are supposed to show up for work and don't, to an empty building that the taxpayers pay for? Sure. Maybe an upgrade/efficiency for NICS (which shouldn't exist anyway, but whatever). We can reform the ATF while DOGE is doing their thing- because you described different sections of the admin doing other things simultaneously.

Even using (your characterization) the most basic queries have exposed $115B in FWA and malfeasance, and they have a website with complete transparency for what they are doing, which has never existed before in government. Imagine if the sky didn't fall every time they walked into an organization and reported billions in fraud.

How much of the process needs to be explained to the lowest common denominator of Americans to meet this brand new SUPER high bar for transparency, which has never existed before? Why is it so different than what we required 8 months ago? We went from the Ivory Tower of Chevron Deference and the complete and total authority of "Trust the Science" to this on a dime.

"We" keep calling everyone on DOGE stupid (or some pithy equivalent using paralipsis) and, at the same time, admit we can't even name anyone on the team (except for Big Ballz, lol) or describe their processes. I get that would lead you to say, "We need to know what they are doing!" but those two comments are pretty hard to hold at the same time. "I don't what people got what data by what methods and I don't know how they are using the data, but those people are stupid and their processes are basic and although they aren't finished, this isn't working so they should stop because I don't understand it."

As far as everything else- Kash is already acting as the current ATF lead, stupid podcaster with no qualifications already paid a visit, and you can’t have 2 dudes any more pro-2A than Patel/Bongino. The ATF should be shuttered, too, IMO, because everything they do in regard to gun restrictions is an infringement on the 2nd. That has nothing to do with DOGE or the Department of Education, but you're correct, there's no reason we can't walk and chew bubblegum.
 

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