The Trump Presidency 2.0

[R.Caerbannog]

This is where I disagree with establishment Republicans. I respect that some people view abortion as murder. Politically, I don't agree with going hard in the paint with "life begins at conception." Because it's difficult for me personally to call it murder in the very early stages and it's also none of my business what decision someone else makes.

I used to agree, then I started seeing the secondary and tertiary order of effects. The demographic collapse, cultural shift, and the decimation of the family unit has absolutely gutted us. There are fewer American children born today than in the past. The counter cultural revolution and 2nd-3rd wave feminism has utterly destroyed us.

If I'm being honest, most establishment Republicans have done conservatives dirty for the past 60 years. We are coasting on the people we have and the new blood being pumped in. Problem is that new blood doesn't share the same morals or values Western culture is based on.

 

[R.Caerbannog]

So, the Washington Post is freaking out and has turned to YouTube to disseminate propaganda for the DC bureaucracy. They're shorts for YouTube, but I'm willing to bet there is more content like this floating around.

 

[Topkick]

There are fewer American children born today than in the past.

For the sake of population, I don't like the idea of bringing people into the world under unfavorable conditions. I know the argument that people are willing to adopt, but there are also a lot of foster homes filled with unwanted kids.

 

[Devildoc]

The GOP really had no hard position on abortion until Reagan and the 'moral majority.' His platform was weird because it validated both traditional family/woman values and roles, and also supported women elevating in the professional workforce.

I don't know that softening their platform on abortion would have done them any favors because a lot of conservatives would have abandoned them; however, I DO think if they had simply said it's a states' rights issue and we should let the states handle it whatever the outcome, I think the GOP would have been very strong WITH the right messaging. We saw with the strike-down of Roe v Wade that the democrats have framed it as 'they want to end abortion' and the GOP did not articulate 'no, it's a states' rights issue' nearly hard enough.

Regarding unions, I work in a right to work state and have zero experience so I have no opinion.

 

[R.Caerbannog]

For the sake of population, I don't like the idea of bringing people into the world under unfavorable conditions. I know the argument that people are willing to adopt, but there are also a lot of foster homes filled with unwanted kids.

I don't disagree Top, but barring any genetic or birth defects, it's not healthy for the nation to sacrifice it's young.

 

[Topkick]

I don't disagree Top, but barring any genetic or birth defects, it's not healthy for the nation to sacrifice it's young.

I see that point, but I'd argue it's not healthy bringing unwanted people into your nation.

 

[Topkick]

I don't disagree Top, but barring any genetic or birth defects, it's not healthy for the nation to sacrifice it's young.

I'll say this, I wasn't unwanted but had a less than dreamy childhood due to divorce. I personally found a home and family in the Army and it turned my life around. It's the biggest reason I stayed and made it a career. But that happens to a small percentage of people.

 

[R.Caerbannog]

I see that point, but I'd argue it's not healthy bringing unwanted people into your nation.

That's the bug in the ointment. Instead of raising and fostering our own people, we've been importing people from 3rd world. Many of these people hate us. Ilhan Omar and the members of the squad are a great example of this. Not only do they not share a cultural connection with us, if things get rough they're not going to stick around and fight.

Quite honestly we would have been better off with our citizens being born than the influx of people from India, SEA, and other parts of the world. England, France, Canada, and Europe, made the mistake of unchecked migration and they're now paying for it. Little girls being stabbed by migrants, rape gangs, and the implementation of Sharia law zones are common occurrences.

I'll say this, I wasn't unwanted but had a less than dreamy childhood due to divorce. I personally found a home and family in the Army and it turned my life around. It's the biggest reason I stayed and made it a career. But that happens to a small percentage of people.

I'm glad you found family in the Army Top!

 

[Topkick]

Quite honestly we would have been better off with our citizens being born

This part is debatable. Studies show bad apples often have unstable childhoods. Manson, Ramirez, Eileen Weornos, and the list goes on. I also wonder how many are drug addicts and/ or eating up entitlements in the US?

 

[Box]

The Spartans just threw unsuitable children off a cliff - makes for a great plot point in an action movie - I'm just not sure if its the right technique for western civilization.

 

[Devildoc]

The Spartans just threw unsuitable children off a cliff - makes for a great plot point in an action movie - I'm just not sure if its the right technique for western civilization.

The Western version 2.0: "good initiative, poor judgment."

 

[Topkick]

The Spartans just threw unsuitable children off a cliff - makes for a great plot point in an action movie - I'm just not sure if its the right technique for western civilization.

Prevention seems more humane, but where's the fun in that?

 

[Devildoc]

Quite honestly we would have been better off with our citizens being born....

This part is debatable. Studies show bad apples often have unstable childhoods. Manson, Ramirez, Eileen Weornos, and the list goes on. I also wonder how many are drug addicts and/ or eating up entitlements in the US?

The data are pretty clear; while the middle class and upper/middle class yammer the loudest about abortion, they are also the fewest to get abortions. The bottom 20% is the highest percentage to have abortions; it follows, also the least likely to have opportunities and income.

But I am not sure there is data to support the bad apple theory as much as the self-perpetuating cycle of entitlements.

The other elephant in the room is that blacks far and away have more abortions than any other race/ethnicity, and we know that Margaret Sanger was a loud and proud racist to pushed abortion onto black women.

 

[Box]

Don't get me wrong - I am all about throwing some mother fuckers off a cliff - the question is - who REALLY gets to decide who should and who should NOT be thrown off the cliff - and what is the window for how old someone can be before you can no longer throw them off a cliff...

I'm pretty certain that there are some people out there that could be subjected to a 108th trimester cliff-toss and the world would be a better place without them.
...which flows right into the "why do some folks vote yes on abortions but no the death penalty"

Then suddenly - we are right back to the "who gets to decide" problem - which always seems to be the sticking point.

 

[Devildoc]

Plenty of examples.

I think you are trying to marry a couple things into one. Just because someone is not aborted and born into an impoverished home does not mean that home leads to an unstable childhood. And just because someone has an unstable childhood doesn't necessarily mean they will become a bad apple. And because someone is/was a bad apple, that doesn't necessarily mean they had an unstable childhood.

I am open minded, though. I'll read the data.

 

[Topkick]

I think you are trying to marry a couple things into one. Just because someone is not aborted and born into an impoverished home does not mean that home leads to an unstable childhood. And just because someone has an unstable childhood doesn't necessarily mean they will become a bad apple. And because someone is/was a bad apple, that doesn't necessarily mean they had an unstable childhood.

I am open minded, though. I'll read the data.

No, I'm not trying to marry anything and I'm not claiming anything about unaborted children. I'm simply saying that a lot of bad apples come from mothers and fathers who should not have had kids. Many of them spent their childhoods in foster homes. There are plenty of examples and studies. I also realize there are positive examples.

 

[Devildoc]

No, I'm not trying to marry anything and I'm not claiming anything about unaborted children. I'm simply saying that a lot of bad apples come from mothers and fathers who should not have had kids. Many of them spent their childhoods in foster homes. There are plenty of examples and studies. I also realize there are positive examples.

OK, thanks for clarifying.

The bolded/italicized I agree.

I am legit curious about the 'n' and I'd love to see the studies/data.

Edited to add, I wonder if we assume the numbers (bad apples) are higher because they make the news, whereas the numbers of successful people from broken families (or people who probably should not have had kids) appear lower because successful people generally don't make the news? Just pontificating aloud....

 

[Topkick]

OK, thanks for clarifying.

The bolded/italicized I agree.

I am legit curious about the 'n' and I'd love to see the studies/data.

Just Google "crime and foster care" and AI will give you a start. You'll also see plenty of sites with links to conclusive studies, including the FBI.

I studied this in college, so it's a passion of mine. Forgive me if I came across a little shitty.

 

[R.Caerbannog]

This part is debatable. Studies show bad apples often have unstable childhoods. Manson, Ramirez, Eileen Weornos, and the list goes on. I also wonder how many are drug addicts and/ or eating up entitlements in the US?

I totally get that. My first degree was in Anthropology. So I definitely understand nature vs nurture and the differences in human evolution. I just think that even though we have issues with our own citizens, we should have focused inward. Not that migration is bad, but a lot of nations dumped their problem children here.

The data are pretty clear; while the middle class and upper/middle class yammer the loudest about abortion, they are also the fewest to get abortions. The bottom 20% is the highest percentage to have abortions; it follows, also the least likely to have opportunities and income.

But I am not sure there is data to support the bad apple theory as much as the self-perpetuating cycle of entitlements.

The other elephant in the room is that blacks far and away have more abortions than any other race/ethnicity, and we know that Margaret Sanger was a loud and proud racist to pushed abortion onto black women.

I'll be honest, I still think think the biggest issue is culture. Up until the destruction of the nuclear family and counter cultural revolution, Black American's we're more integrated into society. Now, black culture has devolved into the worst parts of consumerism, excess, and nihilism.

 

[Devildoc]

I'll be honest, I still think think the biggest issue is culture. Up until the destruction of the nuclear family and counter cultural revolution, Black American's we're more integrated into society. Now, black culture has devolved into the worst parts of consumerism, excess, and nihilism.

I agree that is part of it, and that happened to coincide with the Civil Rights Act and other legislation in the '60s which sounded good in theory but really marginalized black Americans.