Oh yeah and what's your master plan?
The Trump Presidency
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Devildoc
Verified Military
I could marry you right now.
Dude, stop being so damn cheeky about "what's the plan". Do you really think we don't have plans to deal with North Korea? Do you really think that super smart military strategist have not looked at every possible situation or scenario when it comes to NK?
The United States Military has contingencies and war plans for every place and country in this world. We have rooms full of Col's dreaming up all kinds of stuff trying to be promoted, I've bet we have contingencies for New Zealand, why, because you never fucking know. But to think that you would believe we wouldn't have plans for NK, who has been an enemy for over half a century, is mind boggling to me. You think we would station 30k troops across the DMZ and just tell them shoot back if you have too? The greatest military in the history of the world, and you think North Korea is some kind of problem for us? Really?
The reason I didn't respond to this, is because I like you and didn't want to bust your balls. But being that you have done it twice now.
What kind of war do you think it's going to be bud? You think we are even going to attempt to play a conventional game with a nuclear armed threat? Listen to the statements made by SecDef, POTTS, and General Milley. This ain't going to be some kind of shock and awe type event where we blow up some government buildings while CNN records from afar. If we move to open combat with NK we are going to remove them from the planet, as in that will become the new study grounds for the effects of nuclear war with the United States of America. That's all that they will be able to do with that waste land.
FYI: We've had plans to nuke NK since Gen McArthur.
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I spit out my coffee! LMFAO!
Devildoc
Verified Military
Well, certainly having delivery capability is bad enough; the idea of a nuke attached to the pointy end of a rocket scares the bejeezus out of a bunch of folks. Japan and South Korea are getting vocal:
U.S. Allies Warn North Korea Against Firing Missiles at Guam
U.S. Allies Warn North Korea Against Firing Missiles at Guam
Unlike the US and North Korea, we're all friends here. Let's be unlike the current political situation and dial back the rhetoric a bit.
I don't know what other peoples' personal plans are to deal with North Korea, but my plans are to offer my full support to whatever plan the Commander in Chief announces.
I personally think it would be terrible to go to war with North Korea for any number of reasons, which I'm happy to articulate if anyone wants to know. But I also kind of wonder if it might be worth it to go ahead and get it over with now ("now" as in "for the next 25 years or so") than continue to let this problem fester and grow.
I don't know what other peoples' personal plans are to deal with North Korea, but my plans are to offer my full support to whatever plan the Commander in Chief announces.
I personally think it would be terrible to go to war with North Korea for any number of reasons, which I'm happy to articulate if anyone wants to know. But I also kind of wonder if it might be worth it to go ahead and get it over with now ("now" as in "for the next 25 years or so") than continue to let this problem fester and grow.
Devildoc
Verified Military
Four years ago next month I had shoulder reconstruction surgery. Up until the day of surgery, it wasn't chronically painful; it would just be painful every now and then, or if I moved my arm just 'so'. The morning of my surgery I asked the surgeon (who used to be one of the team orthos for the NY Giants) what would happen if I kicked the can since it was annoying me but not real serious. She said "It is annoying now. That's why we fix it now. If you don't fix it now, it will get worse and worse, and be a far more complicated surgery, and the outcomes could be worse."
That is the analogy I use with my wife when she asks me about what I think about what is going on in Korea.
To be sure, it is a shit sandwich with zero easy answers.
We as a nation have expended our credibility with Iraq and post-Osama Afghanistan. I get that. But the Kim dynasty has been working to get nukes for longer than some of our members have been alive. Each Kim coming closer than the last, and crazier than the last.
You know who else used rhetoric like SECDEF did in making a statement telling the Norks to lay off the nukes or suffer annihilation? You guessed it, Bill Clinton. That raging conservative warmonger.
The point is, Kim has threatened a US territory. He's threatened neighboring countries. Diplomacy has not worked with the dynasty, and it will not work except to give other parties involved something to feel good about when we do go hot with them. Not if, but when. He's going to get the first lick in, and at that point all bets are off.
You know who else used rhetoric like SECDEF did in making a statement telling the Norks to lay off the nukes or suffer annihilation? You guessed it, Bill Clinton. That raging conservative warmonger.
The point is, Kim has threatened a US territory. He's threatened neighboring countries. Diplomacy has not worked with the dynasty, and it will not work except to give other parties involved something to feel good about when we do go hot with them. Not if, but when. He's going to get the first lick in, and at that point all bets are off.
@SpitfireV I didn't mean my comments to be offensive, and if you took them as such I apologize. I was trying to point out that we have been planning for this showdown for a long time.
@Marauder06, I agree with your post. I think there will be incredible loss on both NK and SK to include terrible repercussions throughout the region.
Most significant would be the inevitable loss of Seoul, and the surrounding metro and it's estimated 25 million in population. The devastating effects that on the economy and trade with SK, and the stressing of relationships between US and China and Russia.
That being said, a NK with a significant stock pile of nuclear ICBM's and a psychopath leader like Kim Jung Un is wholly unacceptable. It would cause permanent instability in the region, for us and the rest of the world. It would limit our future options with dealing with their hissyfits, and would jeopardize trade through the the Pacific.
Not even getting into the likelihood that they would share their technology and weapons with other nations such as Iran. It's just not a world I want to see.
I'm all for a peaceful negotiations of disarmament of NK, but I think that ship has sailed and it's now a matter of stop them before they build significant stockpiles of nuclear weapons.
Just my $.02
@Marauder06, I agree with your post. I think there will be incredible loss on both NK and SK to include terrible repercussions throughout the region.
Most significant would be the inevitable loss of Seoul, and the surrounding metro and it's estimated 25 million in population. The devastating effects that on the economy and trade with SK, and the stressing of relationships between US and China and Russia.
That being said, a NK with a significant stock pile of nuclear ICBM's and a psychopath leader like Kim Jung Un is wholly unacceptable. It would cause permanent instability in the region, for us and the rest of the world. It would limit our future options with dealing with their hissyfits, and would jeopardize trade through the the Pacific.
Not even getting into the likelihood that they would share their technology and weapons with other nations such as Iran. It's just not a world I want to see.
I'm all for a peaceful negotiations of disarmament of NK, but I think that ship has sailed and it's now a matter of stop them before they build significant stockpiles of nuclear weapons.
Just my $.02
Devildoc
Verified Military
These things are really getting the world's attention. SK and Japan are getting nervous. China is nervous. Everyone is nervous. China has said as much as they have no influence on NK:
China seethes on sidelines amid latest North Korea crisis
A nuclear-armed NK cannot stand. Everyone knows this. What they don't know is what to do about it.
So "fire and fury" isn't strong enough.....
Trump doubles down on 'fire and fury' warning to North Korea: 'Maybe it wasn't tough enough'
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This almost ended up in the GoT thread. #fireandfury
Instagram post by Doc • Aug 9, 2017 at 11:25pm UTC
Instagram post by Doc • Aug 9, 2017 at 11:25pm UTC
There was a time when the PRC would send a million Chinamen across the Yalu to help North Korea. That was when NK leadership was committed to something resembling Communism...before Daddy Kim got completely off the fucking bus with Juche and the collapse of the USSR. I doubt very much if either Russia or the PRC is willing to get into a World War coming to the defense of that certifiable fucking lunatic bastard...
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R.Caerbannog
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I know I'm a nobody here, but I think the presidents remark is right on here. I honestly don't believe that the American public really understands the existential threat that nuclear armed rouge states like NK and Iran pose to us as a species. Trumps rhetoric, while not the most eloquent, is how we should have responded to NK posturing years ago. Due to political bickering, pettiness, and weakness on a global front, we are now having to deal with the resulting fallout of international and domestic weakness that led us here. I'm going to be completely blunt here, but the American public is quite frankly retarded when it comes to acknowledging that other countries loathe us to the point of nuclear annihilation. Heck, the rest of the 1st world is even more retarded and often coddles the same enemies that would see them and the USA burn.
To hastily and maybe incorrectly quote Free, "jesus buttfucking cinnamon titty christ". The way I see things, if it weren't for rogue puppet states run by mental patients (like NK, Iran, & Pakistan for starters) we'd have orbital elevators and all kinds of cool stuff. But no, instead we've let this cancer on our species fester and spread. Now we are left off cleaning up China's friggin mess, which they are going to leverage in some way to try and screw us over. But hey, if you try to explain this conundrum to the rest of the free world they'll say, "oooh...dancing with the stars is on" or "I'm like, trying to watch Justin Beiber... lol". I dunno, I just doubt that the majority of people are going to understand, much less read, the epic prose that SecDef Mattis released or grasp how world events affect them.
To hastily and maybe incorrectly quote Free, "jesus buttfucking cinnamon titty christ". The way I see things, if it weren't for rogue puppet states run by mental patients (like NK, Iran, & Pakistan for starters) we'd have orbital elevators and all kinds of cool stuff. But no, instead we've let this cancer on our species fester and spread. Now we are left off cleaning up China's friggin mess, which they are going to leverage in some way to try and screw us over. But hey, if you try to explain this conundrum to the rest of the free world they'll say, "oooh...dancing with the stars is on" or "I'm like, trying to watch Justin Beiber... lol". I dunno, I just doubt that the majority of people are going to understand, much less read, the epic prose that SecDef Mattis released or grasp how world events affect them.
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R.Caerbannog
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Whelp, looks like the Chinese are gonna try and fuck us. Saw a story on their main news agency saying that the trouble with the DPRK is due to the statement by our POTUS and make us out to be the antagonizers in this debacle.
China pledges neutrality - unless US strikes North Korea first
Pretty awesome state of affairs. Taken at face value, we sit here and hope NK doesn't use the bomb or go to war with China to prevent its use?
I agree completely, in spirit at least, with what you've written here. Yes, NK does present a clear and present danger to the allies we are obligated to protect and defend. But Trump is using Kim's own language of rhetorical threat and bluster, and I'm not sure that's the best way to go about it.
I would rather see POTUS, any POTUS, follow Teddy Roosevelt's policy, "Speak softly and carry a big stick." Reagan was very good at conveying the image. So was JFK, so was Nixon.
The trick then is for NK to toss the first frag. Maybe a page out of the Gulf of Tonkin and we cover our ass with the PRC.
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We've invaded countries over less and with less evidence....
I'm sure our buddies at the CIA can come up with all kinds provocations we didn't know about. 
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