The Trump Presidency

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Donald Trump again blames 'both sides' for Charlottesville violence as he defends far-right protesters

Well, somebody didn't stick to the script... Never thought I'd see the day that a US President would defend Nazis.

That's where you truly don't understand our constitution, as do apparently a large portion of people here. Those "Nazis" may have a totally fucked viewpoint and I would gladly volunteer to flip the safety if any ACTION was taken on their part, but it is not ANYONE's place to SILENCE them as citizens of this nation.

You simply walk away and don't listen. Then it becomes an echo chamber.

Not show up with bats, throw piss and shit bags, cause violence where there was none.
 
Donald Trump again blames 'both sides' for Charlottesville violence as he defends far-right protesters

Well, somebody didn't stick to the script... Never thought I'd see the day that a US President would defend Nazis.

At least David Duke is happy though?

ETA: Here's video... Skip to about 1:10 or 1:20



I totally missed that, where POTUS defended the "radical right groups"? What I did hear was POTUS calling out both sides as being at fault & the whole event / incident as an epic shit show!

Disclaimer: I am not a fan of the Donald.

That's where you truly don't understand our constitution, as do apparently a large portion of people here. Those "Nazis" may have a totally fucked viewpoint and I would gladly volunteer to flip the safety if any ACTION was taken on their part, but it is not ANYONE's place to SILENCE them as citizens of this nation.

You simply walk away and don't listen. Then it becomes an echo chamber.

Not show up with bats, throw piss and shit bags, cause violence where there was none.


+1
 
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That's where you truly don't understand our constitution, as do apparently a large portion of people here. Those "Nazis" may have a totally fucked viewpoint and I would gladly volunteer to flip the safety if any ACTION was taken on their part, but it is not ANYONE's place to SILENCE them as citizens of this nation.

You simply walk away and don't listen. Then it becomes an echo chamber.

Not show up with bats, throw piss and shit bags, cause violence where there was none.

THIS
 
That's where you truly don't understand our constitution, as do apparently a large portion of people here. Those "Nazis" may have a totally fucked viewpoint and I would gladly volunteer to flip the safety if any ACTION was taken on their part, but it is not ANYONE's place to SILENCE them as citizens of this nation.

You simply walk away and don't listen. Then it becomes an echo chamber.

Not show up with bats, throw piss and shit bags, cause violence where there was none.
Post deserves extra cred. Well said.

I don't fault the president for saying both sides were at fault- they were. And I won't be lured into the trap where I say one side deserves it more than the other because of whatever. Neither one did.

I stand by this statement- President Trump has a real issue with being ultra hard on some issues (Saying the words 'Islamic Terrorist', NK, personal attacks against people who wrong him) and bafflingly demure on others (distancing himself definitively from the alt-right and white domestic terror).

I don't like it. It gives me pause, and I wish it didn't. But the only way it wouldn't would be if he stopped giving me reason to.

Well, it's far too early to tell if his actions against NK are going to work. Today NK stepped back from the rhetoric about Guam.

I also think it is short-sighted to knee-jerk by distancing businesses, too. Again, far too soon. I don't know if it's "false narrative" but I do think people would rather believe what they want to believe.
That's the great thing about capitalism- there is no such thing as 'far too soon'. Environment is bad? Change the environment or get out.

I like to think about independent businesses as the frog of the ecosystem. Businesses are cutting and running because they have monetary reason to do so. Not party line, no sense of patriotism, nothing driving those decisions other than pure desire to prosper.

They're leaving because President Trump and his antics are bad business, and those that are emotionally clear headed enough are realizing that and jumping ship like Theon Greyjoy during a redemption moment.

It's not the end all be all- but it's a very good indicator for all those with orange colored glasses that refuse to listen to the 'false narratives' and 'fake news'.

And of course NK backed down. They've been doing it for decades. It's almost like all the other presidents that ignored them and dismissed their ridiculous bullshit were WAY better politicians than our current president.

It's on topic here and there. And everything I've had to say in that thread has been on topic. The left has branded pretty much every republican a racist even though we come from diverse backgrounds and have different percentages of melanin content.
Sir, you're either being obtuse or purposefully angry at the left. Not sure.

I don't say that in an attacking way, just my opinion and an observation.
 
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I won't be lured into the trap where I say one side deserves it more than the other because of whatever. Neither one did.

I stand by this statement- President Trump has a real issue with being ultra hard on some issues (Saying the words 'Islamic Terrorist', NK, personal attacks against people who wrong him) and bafflingly demure on others (distancing himself definitively from the alt-right and white domestic terror).

I don't like it. It gives me pause, and I wish it didn't. But the only way it wouldn't would be if he stopped giving me reason to.
Post deserves extra cred. Well said.

I don't fault the president for saying both sides were at fault- they were. And I won't be lured into the trap where I say one side deserves it more than the other because of whatever. Neither one did.

I stand by this statement- President Trump has a real issue with being ultra hard on some issues (Saying the words 'Islamic Terrorist', NK, personal attacks against people who wrong him) and bafflingly demure on others (distancing himself definitively from the alt-right and white domestic terror).

I don't like it. It gives me pause, and I wish it didn't. But the only way it wouldn't would be if he stopped giving me reason to.

At the risk of being antagonistic....

By including "alt-right and white domestic terror" in the same parentheses are you implying that "white domestic terrorism" is exclusive to the alt-right.... if so then what is James T. Hodgkinson of Illinois?


Before the flame throwers are turned on, I do not affiliate or align my ideals with the "alt-right" just trying to keep it in context.
 
At the risk of being antagonistic....

By including "alt-right and white domestic terror" in the same parentheses are you implying that "white domestic terrorism" is exclusive to the alt-right.... if so then what is James T. Hodgkinson of Illinois?


Before the flame throwers are turned on, I do not affiliate or align my ideals with the "alt-right" just trying to keep it in context.
I don't think so, I think that's what you inferred, and it doesn't make a lot of sense. I included NK, Islamic terrorism, and people that wrong Pres Trump in the same parenthesis just prior- in no way was I implying that people that wrong President Trump are exclusively Islamic terrorists from NK. Those were examples. So why would you think I implied the alt right was the sole source of white domestic terrorism a sentence later?

I have a very strict rule about never speaking in absolutes. NEVER!

So while I think the alt right as a thinly veiled ruse to allow racism or at least racist ideology in the modern political environment, I realize that not everyone from the alt right is a terrorist or actually even racist. Douchebags with fuckboi haircuts and weak rhetoric, yup.

And James T Hosgkinson is an American terrorist that happens to be a dumpy white dude. What's your point there? Other than it was your example of white domestic terror not afilliated with the alt right, which we now agree came out of nowhere.
 
That's where you truly don't understand our constitution, as do apparently a large portion of people here. Those "Nazis" may have a totally fucked viewpoint and I would gladly volunteer to flip the safety if any ACTION was taken on their part, but it is not ANYONE's place to SILENCE them as citizens of this nation.

You simply walk away and don't listen. Then it becomes an echo chamber.

Not show up with bats, throw piss and shit bags, cause violence where there was none.

I didn't mention their right to protest... As while I vehemently disagree with the beliefs, I don't believe that gives people free reign to attack them or anything of the sort. I see IRA sympathisers parade in my city and hate it... But those are their views and they are entitled to hold them and voice them in a peaceful manner. Echo chambers benefit nobody and are severely affecting political discourse.

However, my issue is when POTUS, stands in front of cameras and states there was some "very fine people" amongst the Nazis, white supremacists and other dickheads who rocked upto that protests. Tries to fudge the issue by asking reporters "What is the alt right? Define the alt right?" when he has fucking Steve Bannon working for him, a man who brags about giving the alt right a platform. Engages in whataboutery when questioned about the alt rights actions by saying "But what about the other side?". It was "But Hilary" with a different slant to it.

I've family living in the US, have visited the US and have a high opinion of the US and the people who live there that I cross paths with. POTUS is supposed to be the leader of the free world.... Trumps mask slipped last night. For all the prepared speeches and statements he gives, when he's in front of the camera the real Donald Trump comes out to play and he's not fit to lead a conga line.
 
That's the great thing about capitalism- there is no such thing as 'far too soon'. Environment is bad? Change the environment or get out.

I like to think about independent businesses as the frog of the ecosystem. Businesses are cutting and running because they have monetary reason to do so. Not party line, no sense of patriotism, nothing driving those decisions other than pure desire to prosper.

They're leaving because President Trump and his antics are bad business, and those that are emotionally clear headed enough are realizing that and jumping ship like Theon Greyjoy during a redemption moment.

It's not the end all be all- but it's a very good indicator for all those with orange colored glasses that refuse to listen to the 'false narratives' and 'fake news'.

And of course NK backed down. They've been doing it for decades. It's almost like all the other presidents that ignored them and dismissed their ridiculous bullshit were WAY better politicians than our current president.

If Trump turns things around and if the economy continues to improve on near-record-breaking pace, I wonder if these businesses will attempt to realign.

RE: NK, for all of Trump's rhetoric, 99% of which I just roll my eyes, he and his team did manage to secure a 15-0 security council vote on sanctions. That is no small feat given the personalities and countries on the SC. Some of them almost always just abstains. That was a very big deal.

I do agree that the former presidents were better politicians, because that's really all they were. But with regard to NK and only NK, they were all also very short-sighted, seemingly OK with kicking the can to a new administration. No one had the balls to even attempt to make things good.
 
And James T Hosgkinson is an American terrorist that happens to be a dumpy white dude. What's your point there? Other than it was your example of white domestic terror not afilliated with the alt right, which we now agree came out of nowhere.

My point is he was drinking the KoolAid just a different flavor.

Which came out of nowhere? My using JTH as an example or the assassination attempt he perpetrated? If it is the latter the evidence does not show that. For the most part he experienced a gradual escalation of outrage in his political view, that the "Republicans" were destroying the country. That outrage was fueled by the doomsday rhetoric found on the big three media outlets and other media that have a liberal / progressive political view. I don't see it as coming out of "nowhere", I see it as a direct result of the left / progressive , right / conservative pointing the finger at each other claiming that "the other side is trying to take away your freedom".

Edit: Also, I reject the "white domestic terrorism" designation. I used it in my post, but it was because I was quoting your post. So, if we're now supposed to designate the race / ethnicity of terrorism than the ambush of the Dallas LE and San Bernardino should be "(Fill in here) domestic terrorism"... if "radical islamic terrorism" is supposed to be offensive then I call BullShit, terrorism is terrorism no matter what race / ethnicity.

What I see is divide and conquer, just look at how the forum community is reacting to each other... all of this because self affirmed anarchists & supremacists are fighting? The reason for the protest / counter protest is irrelevant at this point, the whole discourse has to stop. "antifa" & "brown shirts" need to be put in check, before 2008 the white supremacists were a non-issue, but now in this extreme hyperbolic political atmosphere the spot light is being shown on the fringe elements and being portrayed as the "pulse of the nation". The whole thing is UNSAT.
 
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Another aspect is the automatic and complete demonization, condemnation, and otherwise complete determination of guilt with no court of law for anyone remotely connected to white pride, supremacy, or nazi/klan ties.

Yet, everyone can wave their flags, skip work/school for other-than-white ethnic pride....and this here whitebread motherfucker is expected to shut the fuck up, show up to work, support minority pride, accept all blame and pay reparations for fucksticks over, say 6 generations back none of us never even met as an infant, and excuse the otherwise intolerable and hostile behavior of people who never lived under the lash? Voice something remotely related towards pride of heritage or contrary to some party line in public and have armed mobs show up, with no police intervention other than a shield wall pushing towards the awaiting mob?

Bullshit.
 
I agree with this @amlove21.
My unit just finished our layout for a 24 hour quick response deployment to NK, and while it remains unlikely, the possibility is real, our training focus has completely shifted, and the tension and sense of urgency can be felt throughout. I will gladly fight to defend my country, and am ready to go in guns blazing, but hopefully we are not sent in to lose guys for a dick measuring contest.


It helps to have a legitimate motive anytime you go into the bloody shit. Better to die for something than for nothing. Otherwise you end up with a legion of restless souls on a black granite wall.
 
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The look on General Kelly's face (with arms folded) as Trump doubled down on his "both sides" position did me in. In that one speech he gave those who support Natzism an equal place at the table. He effectively normalized them. And that, I cannot abide. (bonus points if you get and understand that reference)

John Kelly's five stages of grief during Trump's news conference

The CEO Forum that he killed today, (to prevent the remaining few from quitting) was important. They were there to advise on the hard economic issues, but "naaaahhhh" we don't need them.

In a prior post I said that it was my hope that General Kelly would be able to control Trump; it was pointed out that I used a poor choice of words and that we don't want our President to be 'controlled.' I concede that, but Trump has also shown that he is incapable of listening to the advice and counsel given to him. Truth be told, my biggest fear is that that good men and women around him will leave in frustration, and leave us with sycophants as his only advisors.

For the record, I have been predicting since about day-1 that during the first State of the Union he would announce all of the great things he has personally accomplished, and then resign. I am now actually hoping for that.

To add -

Here is where "the abide" comment is from....

Video is NOT SAFE FOR WORK
 
Antifa is a problem. So I don't see why they don't deserve some blame.

As has been said in this thread about 27 different ways, yes they do deserve some of the blame.

But when you treat those who wave the Nazi flag as equals to counter protesters, even those who have Communists leanings, you normalize the Nazi Party. You take away the "ultimate evil" tag that they earned and deserve.

That should never happen, and that's what Trump did by not calling them out specifically.
 
Gaping assholes are the extreme in any circumstance.

As I have said before, antifas protestors are gaping assholes. Those assholes close up just a little bit when they are protesting the "Alysa Gap" of gaping assholes, those sympathetic or outright Nazis. Until AntiFas actually advocates actively for genocide, aligns itself with those who have actively and horrifically committed such acts, let's just hold our horses.

I know what you'll say next, "well AntiFas is communist and...." blah blah blah. Nazism is the worst of humanity. It is actively the worst thing we have ever seen as a species. It will forever be a blight on humanity. ANYONE who actively supports such a movement is nothing but a racist, disgusting piece of shit. The same cannot be said for those leftists calling themselves "anti-fascists". Equating them, or BLM, or even the KKK to Nazis or those that support or proclaim to support Nazi beliefs is a form of false equivalency that is hard to fathom.
 
Both evil, and both need to go.

But we have laws in this country that protect speech and thought. Communists killed plenty of Jews because they were Jews so that point is kind of dumb.
 
Communists killed plenty of Jews because they were Jews so that point is kind of dumb.

Really?

Come on man.

"Communists killed plenty of Jews because they were Jews so that point is kind of dumb."

That's your argument? Get back to me whe you understand the concept of genocide and what the SS attempted to do. This would be a very good start.

Full Film — United States Holocaust Memorial Museum

I will never forget that you typed these words...

"Communists killed plenty of Jews because they were Jews so that point is kind of dumb."

And then you read it to yourself and felt like it was worthy hitting the "send" key.

How can you be so obtuse?
 
Both evil, and both need to go.

But we have laws in this country that protect speech and thought. Communists killed plenty of Jews because they were Jews so that point is kind of dumb.

You idiot. They didn't do it in an industrial and calculated way like the Nazis did.

Pull your trousers up.
 
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