United States & Gun Control discussion.

[Rabid Badger]

I wish he did have a gun!

I also wish the students beat that man to death on the sidewalk before the police showed up. But life is imperfect.

I'm not anti-gun. I'm just again stating the obvious of the difference between a knife attack and a gun attack. Hopefully it'll come out that that fat POS tried to get a gun but was maybe denied.

or that if only 1 person had a gun, there'd be one dead bad guy, 1 injured student, and everyone goes home happy. 2 sides, always 2 sides....

Agree with your "denied" statement, although that wouldn't make the MSM if he had.

 

[Marine0311]

We must do more to push back on these laws. Vote these people out of office to start.

 

[JBS]

Your point is moot considering 14 people were wounded. And not 14 people were shot and killed. Just saying

China's a gun free society and every 6 months someone goes apeshit and slashes or hammers or knifes or screwdrivers 10 or 20 toddlers to death.

We've managed to kill and maim each other for 20,000 years. Every time they pull a Peat Bog man mummy out of some Northern European archaeological site, or a neolithic skeleton out of a rock quarry somewhere, or a skull from a Pre-Colonial American holy site, the bones are riddled with arrowheads, broken spear tips or blunt force trauma fractures. Is it easier mechanically and psychologically to shoot rather than these other methods? Probably. But the problem isn't going away if we ban guns.

The trend would likely follow that of gun-free Britain (violent crime capital of Europe) and gun free Australia ; gun deaths would eventually go down but rape and assault and every other violent crime would triple or quadruple as the people are left unable to defend themselves.

 

[AWP]

The problem with being "civilized" is that we tend to forget our animalistic nature. We're different from the men and women of a thousand or 2,000 or 10,000 years ago...but not that much.

 

[Marine0311]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...-maryland-as-omalley-pushes-tougher-gun-laws/

One of the world’s biggest gun makers is threatening to move its Maryland manufacturing plant – along with roughly 400 jobs – as Democratic Gov. Martin O’Malley pushes one of the most ambitious gun-control agendas in the country

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/02/27/gun-maker-beretta-considers-leaving-maryland-as-omalley-pushes-tougher-gun-laws/#ixzz2Q23YQHjl​

 

[Marine0311]

ANNAPOLIS, Md. — Sweeping restrictions on gun ownership passed the Maryland General Assembly on Thursday, including a ban on new purchases of assault weapons, a 10-bullet limit on magazines and requirements that handgun buyers undergo fingerprinting and target training

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/05/us/tighter-gun-rules-pass-the-maryland-legislature.html

 

[JBS]

Freefalling In some ways, I'd say we're worse. The capacity for violence is there, and when we add technology to the mix, the wolves among us can do greater harm than ever. The solution isn't stripping weapons and making more sheep; it's making more sheepdogs.

 

[Marine0311]

In some ways, I'd say we're worse. The capacity for violence is there, and when we add technology to the mix, the wolves among us can do greater harm than ever. The solution isn't stripping weapons and making more sheep; it's making more sheepdogs.

Do you mean sheepdogs meaning more police?

 

[JBS]

I mean absolutely more police, but also an educated and safely armed population for the myriad number of times when Law Enforcement cannot possibly respond in time to save lives.

 

[Marine0311]

I mean absolutely more police, but also an educated and safely armed population for the myriad number of times when Law Enforcement cannot possibly respond in time to save lives.

I then agree. Police are awesome however the people must be educated and armed to repel attackers.

 

[pardus]

If more people were armed and responsible, we wouldn't need more police.

 

[pardus]

The trend would likely follow that of gun-free Britain (violent crime capital of Europe) and gun free Australia ; gun deaths would eventually go down but rape and assault and every other violent crime would triple or quadruple as the people are left unable to defend themselves.

I had a lady walk up to me the other day and say something along the lines of, guns are bad, look at Britian, their gun crime is down, unlike the USA.

I said, "yes, you are correct, gun crime is down, however, as a result of the gun ban, violence in general has increased so much that the UK is one of the most violent countries in the world." I explained that the violent crime was in the form of knife, blunt object and hand/foot violence. She was truly shocked by this, not realizing that this was possible, but then understood the logic of it.

 

[LimaOscarSierraTango]

But lets all agree that a gun in that man's hand rather then a knife would have resulted in most likely at least 10 deaths.

I have to disagree with you on this. There is no way of knowing how things would have turned out if a gun was involved. Let's not start playing the "what if..." game.

 

[0699]

Freefalling In some ways, I'd say we're worse. The capacity for violence is there, and when we add technology to the mix, the wolves among us can do greater harm than ever. The solution isn't stripping weapons and making more sheep; it's making more sheepdogs.

I fucking HATE this term... IME most of the people that use it are fucking wannabe self-appointed guardians of justice...

 

[Totentanz]

The problem with being "civilized" is that we tend to forget our animalistic nature. We're different from the men and women of a thousand or 2,000 or 10,000 years ago...but not that much.

IMO, Lord of the Flies was way closer to current reality than most people would like to admit. It would probably only take one solid national crisis that significantly threatens the majority's standard of living, and we'd throw out a lot of those "civilized" values at a shocking rate...

 

[dknob]

Freefalling In some ways, I'd say we're worse. The capacity for violence is there, and when we add technology to the mix, the wolves among us can do greater harm than ever. The solution isn't stripping weapons and making more sheep; it's making more sheepdogs.

You don't create a sheepdog by giving a sheep a gun. You just have an armed sheep. Still a sheep. Nor do we need anymore sheep dogs.
We need more wolf hounds.

 

[8654Maine]

Agree w Totentaz. All it takes is one breakdown in our societal mores, i.e. electricity, food, etc, and we'll see how "civilized" people behave.

 

[pardus]

IMO, Lord of the Flies was way closer to current reality than most people would like to admit. It would probably only take one solid national crisis that significantly threatens the majority's standard of living, and we'd throw out a lot of those "civilized" values at a shocking rate...

Agree w Totentaz. All it takes is one breakdown in our societal mores, i.e. electricity, food, etc, and we'll see how "civilized" people behave.

We have already seen it though it was suppressed by the media/govt.

Hurricane Sandy in NYC, there were roving gangs who raided police stations and fire stations. Gangs that would wait until the police and army would leave an area after distributing food/supplies and simply walk into people's houses and take the supplies. People were begging the army and police to stay, but they only stayed during daylight hours.

The police and army were fired upon by these gangs as well.

Bloomberg the POS, ordered that all military personal were not allowed to be armed during this time.

People pulled guns to get gas while they were queuing at gas stations.

Hurricane Sandy showed me very clearly that society is broken. Make no mistake everyone, people are ready now, to throw away all rules/laws/morals that hold society together. Be prepared!

 

[Totentanz]

I was speaking more to a national shift that would last for several years... at present time, as your anecdotes demonstrate, it's at a local level and easily suppressed and therefore quickly forgotten so we can all go back to pretending we're better than that. But all of this (and it's actually recent events like the one you described) is exactly what has lead me to the belief that civilization will quickly degenerate in a very widespread and permanent manner given a larger and more lasting crisis.

Though I think both levels demonstrate that civilized values are a product of prolonged luxury and stability and this "progress" is not as permanently ingrained as many of the enlightened would like to believe.

Hypothetically, what would actually happen if NK actually did manage to strike the US? With a nuke? With sustained attacks? It's a hypothetical, but would we actually maintain our values throughout a conflict given a REAL threat to our homeland?

Admittedly, this kind of strays from the original topic, but I think the human behavior governs both topics in a very similar manner.

 

[JBS]

I fucking HATE this term... IME most of the people that use it are fucking wannabe self-appointed guardians of justice...

You don't create a sheepdog by giving a sheep a gun. You just have an armed sheep. Still a sheep. Nor do we need anymore sheep dogs.
We need more wolf hounds.

Sheepdogs, bloodhounds, wolf hounds, whatever the various terms are, all I'm saying is every week we see stories of men and women who defend themselves with legally owned, legally operated weapons. Is a disabled 70 year old man foiling an assault and armed robbery suddenly a "sheepdog" because he is armed? Of course not. And yes, there are those who see themselves as a vigilante type. But that stereotypical 70 year old man that we read about so frequently in the papers- repelling an assault by would-be thugs- would be nothing but a mere victim, another statistic (a helpless sheep) if he wasn't armed.