United States & Gun Control discussion.

[TLDR20]

How about communities saying no to criminal behavior? A lot of people grow up in neighborhoods where breaking the law is seen as normal and right.
How about people stop buying gangster music and encouraging a criminal mindset that is corrupting children? How about people stop with the handout/you owe me mentality? That just leads to people becoming angry when they don't get what they are "owed" which just pushes them to the dark side. How about cooperating with police when crime is committed to help stamp crime out?
Do you know why schools in "the hood" are shitty? Because a lot of kids are disobedient, disruptive, disrespectful, violent etc... Good teachers leave, the remaining teachers do what they have to and get the fuck out. The schools are in ruin because the students vandalize the place. School systems can't afford to keep pumping money in to repair the same shit over and over again.

How about people taking responsibility instead of expecting a fucking handout.

More goes into schools being shitty than just students. That is most assuredly part, however the amount of funding certain schools receive has as much to do with shitty schools as student body makeup. Low tax revenue in shitty school districts has a lot more to do with the lack of teachers nice schools etc. why the tax revenue is low OTOH is because of exactly what you stated above.

 

[0699]

This isn't an arguement about shitty schools, mental health, or better job opportunities. This is about "don't kill other people". Pretty fucking basic rule. I don't care how poor, downtroden, abused, mentally fucked, etc, you are, not killing other people seems like a simple rule to follow. If you can't follow it, then you need to be removed from society to protect others. Until we realize that there isn't a job program, or education program, or handout program, or mental health program that will fix this, we'll never be over it.

Simple answer, there's some bad/crazy people out there and there always will be.

 

[TLDR20]

@0699 I agree, I was addressing what was said about schools though.

 

[0699]

@0699 I agree, I was addressing what was said about schools though.

And I agree that there are a lot of factors that go into making a school good or bad. IMO parental involvement is a big factor.

I'm just railing against the urge of many Americans to try to find a "reason" for things and a way to "fix" it so things don't go wrong. Every discussion we have about these distractors just distances us from the truth.

 

[pardus]

I don't disagree. I don't view education or mental health treatment as a hand out- its an investment for long term prosperity and as a way to "fix" high crime, economically depressed areas. The social issues that affect high crime areas are too deep seated to be fixed by the government though, like you said. They may not change things over night, but having a safe place for a kid to get 2-3 meals a day, receive life direction from component guidance counselors, and learn critical thinking skills from teachers who actually care (the biggest issue I've seen in public education)- that's a start.

You make it sound like kids are all innocent and just need the chance to develop. In NYC and I wouldn't mind betting many other large urban areas it's the kids themselves that are destroying the school system. They either don't have parents, parents are absentee, drug/alcohol addicts or just scum. Yes it does suck to be those kids but that's not my problem. They are shitting in their own nest, then using that as an excuse years later that the terrible school system failed them. Fuck off! ( <- that's not directed at you @DasBoot )
That's not to say there aren't a lot of great kids in school. However I often hear nightmares from large city schools. In particular NYC and London.

More goes into schools being shitty than just students. That is most assuredly part, however the amount of funding certain schools receive has as much to do with shitty schools as student body makeup. Low tax revenue in shitty school districts has a lot more to do with the lack of teachers nice schools etc. why the tax revenue is low OTOH is because of exactly what you stated above.

I agree with your post and you are correct r.e. the bold, though I'd like to find out if that is true for a city system, I suspect not but am really not sure. To clarify what I mean, does one public city school have a different budget to one in the next neighborhood? I might be completely wrong about this though.

 

[TLDR20]

You make it sound like kids are all innocent and just need the chance to develop. In NYC and I wouldn't mind betting many other large urban areas it's the kids themselves that are destroying the school system. They either don't have parents, parents are absentee, drug/alcohol addicts or just scum. Yes it does suck to be those kids but that's not my problem. They are shitting in their own nest, then using that as an excuse years later that the terrible school system failed them. Fuck off! ( <- that's not directed at you @DasBoot )
That's not to say there aren't a lot of great kids in school. However I often hear nightmares from large city schools. In particular NYC and London.



I agree with your post and you are correct r.e. the bold, though I'd like to find out if that is true for a city system, I suspect not but am really not sure. To clarify what I mean, does one public city school have a different budget to one in the next neighborhood? I might be completely wrong about this though.

I like to use Durham and Chapel hill as examples. One is an affluent community with amazing schools, Durham just across the freeway is quite the opposite. Per person tax revenue is much higher in Chapel Hill than Durham, so the schools are way way better. The fact that teachers can't afford to live near where they teach is another equally huge problem to me. But that is enough hijack for one day.

School funding is truly our best national defense. Unfortunately it is often one of the first cuts.

 

[pardus]

School funding is truly our best national defense. Unfortunately it is often one of the first cuts.

Agree 100%

I think cutting education is an action that borders on being criminal. It should be a sacred cow IMO.

 

[AWP]

To clarify what I mean, does one public city school have a different budget to one in the next neighborhood? I might be completely wrong about this though.

Yes. The county where I grew up had your well off folks on the coast, your "less well off" folks inland, and the "really not well off" folks further inland or close to Georgia. The schools had vastly different budgets and teaching positions on the coast had a waiting list. Kids would spend their whole lives in one town, but for high school they would travel to the school on the coast because it was larger, had better funding, and for athletes had more college scouts looking at the school.

Point blank, in FL if your neighborhood is poor, your education will be poor.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

I think another problem (at least in Texas) is that public schools are mostly self governing by their respective districts. San Antonio has several independent school districts (ISD's). The education tools, teacher requirements, programs of instruction and educational goals vary from ISD to ISD.

The state of TX regulates a basic standard for Teaching certs, textbooks and testing. However, these are often open to "interpretations" by the ISD.

Also like all other states, Texas seems (especially in larger cities) have an extreme liberal/progressive influence within the administration, teachers and textbooks. An example that was recently caught by a parent in the DFW area, was a textbook that did not give the full wording of the second amendment, but only a interpretation of the 2A. Basically stating that the 2A was for state security and militia (or to that effect), leaving out the fact that its an individual right to keep and bear arms.

There are tons of incidents Ive read about in TX alone, where school policy, text materials and personal opinion of the teacher are being introduced to students, that are of a political nature.

My own daughter (5years old) came home and told me she didn't feel safe with me b/c I carry a gun. That guns are dangerous and kill people. I asked where she learned that as she has a .22 and shoots regular with my supervision. Her reply, her teacher gave a gun safety/awareness class that day. I am sure many of you can imagine how that ended:

Me-what makes you an expert on gun safety teacher lady? What certifications do you hold that authorizes you to teach gun safety?

Teacher-Its a district program, and thus I am required to teach it. Oh and by the way I support the 2A and my hubby is a hunter.

Me-did you receive any special training from the district in this program, may I have a copy of the POI?

Teacher- no I have not and you will have.to request that from the district.

Me- so basically you don't have any training or certifications in gun safety and the POI of which you instructed my child, is not an open source document?

Teacher- yes.

Me- you are not allowed to instruct my child in gun safety without my permission and approval of the POI. Lets go talk to your principal.

I ended up taking it all the way up to the district board. It's my understanding that the gun safety/awareness will no longer be taught by teacher, but by local LEO's. I'm working to find out what that will be, but the point here is that you really have to keep a watchful eye onvthe schools now. They have their own agendas and by not getting involved and questioning /raising hell as needed. You are basically saying you can program my child to think like you.

Do I think gun safety is important? Absolutely, but proper gun safety, taught by a professionally certified instructor, with a POI that is recognizable on a state/natioanl level.

I think its a damned shame what our public education has turned into. Worse off, I can't believe people are not taking issue on a national level. I was the first parent to complain about the gun safety in the 9 years they had been doing it. WTF?

 

[AWP]

Good on ya', JAB. Nicely done.

 

[pardus]

Yes. The county where I grew up had your well off folks on the coast, your "less well off" folks inland, and the "really not well off" folks further inland or close to Georgia. The schools had vastly different budgets and teaching positions on the coast had a waiting list. Kids would spend their whole lives in one town, but for high school they would travel to the school on the coast because it was larger, had better funding, and for athletes had more college scouts looking at the school.

Point blank, in FL if your neighborhood is poor, your education will be poor.

County I understand and concur. Where I am, people buy houses based on the school district within the county, but city is a different beast. e.g. New York City etc... NYC places some ' housing projects' (poor housing estates) into otherwise affluent areas to be "fair", kids go to public school in their community, which is why I'm very interested to find the answer.

 

[AWP]

County I understand and concur. Where I am, people buy houses based on the school district within the county, but city is a different beast. e.g. New York City etc... NYC places some ' housing projects' (poor housing estates) into otherwise affluent areas to be "fair", kids go to public school in their community, which is why I'm very interested to find the answer.

We do the same in FL. One reason counties outside of Duval in North FL have seen strong growth over the last 20 years is because of Duval's educational system. Duval went to a charter program to improve education, and it has helped greatly, but if you can't get into the charter program of your choice (or don't want to spend almost 12 hours away from home per day due to busing) then you're stuck with your 'hood.

Duval had a lawsuit go all the way to the Supreme Court over forced busing. The result is they drive kids from all over the county to "level" the racial make up of every school. The result's are not stellar.

 

[x SF med]

We do the same in FL. One reason counties outside of Duval in North FL have seen strong growth over the last 20 years is because of Duval's educational system. Duval went to a charter program to improve education, and it has helped greatly, but if you can't get into the charter program of your choice (or don't want to spend almost 12 hours away from home per day due to busing) then you're stuck with your 'hood.

Duval had a lawsuit go all the way to the Supreme Court over forced busing. The result is they drive kids from all over the county to "level" the racial make up of every school. The result's are not stellar.

Free, just give me all your guns, I'll control them for you.

 

[Ranger Psych]

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/exclu...d-citizenry/story?id=20637341&singlePage=true

Snippet:

Interpol Secretary General Ronald Noble said today the U.S. and the rest of the democratic world is at a security crossroads in the wake of last month's deadly al-Shabab attack at a shopping mall in Nairobi, Kenya – and suggested an answer could be in arming civilians.

In an exclusive interview with ABC News, Noble said there are really only two choices for protecting open societies from attacks like the one on Westgate mall where so-called "soft targets" are hit: either create secure perimeters around the locations or allow civilians to carry their own guns to protect themselves.

First Responders =/= first on the scene. This is hilariously awesome, especially coming from the HMFIC of Interpol. LOL

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

Sounds pretty familiar...

 

[Chopstick]

American Tactical Imports is moving from New York to South Carolina.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/n-y-gunmaker-shot-dixie-article-1.1499710

A Rochester-based company that makes firearms, ammunition and tactical equipment is relocating its headquarters in Dorchester County, South Carolina officials announced Monday.

The state Department of Commerce said that the $2.7 million investment by American Tactical Imports, currently located on Airpark Drive, would mean more than 100 new jobs for the Summerville area.

At its new South Carolina facilities, ATI is also setting up a distribution center and a limited firearm assembly. The company is also moving its customer service operations and sales office to the Summerville site, officials said.

"This move to South Carolina will help ensure a solid foundation for our company," Tony DiChario, president and founder of American Tactical Imports, said in a news release. "The people of South Carolina have welcomed ATI with open arms and we are excited about making our new corporate home there."

 

[Marauder06]

http://hitthewoodline.com/politics/2013/11/1/an-armed-society-is-a-safe-society

In the wake of yet another Islamic terrorist attack in Nigeria, the Secretary General of Interpol advised that the solution to preventing such attacks in the future might include allowing responsible citizens to arm themselves.[1] "Societies have to think about how they're going to approach the problem. One way is to say we want an armed citizenry; you can see the reason for that. Another is to say the enclaves are so secure that in order to get into the soft target you're going to have to pass through extraordinary security," he said. How is it that Interpol, the European police organization, got this particular issue so right when so many in the US get it dead wrong?

 

[AWP]

Meanwhile, over at ABC...

http://twitchy.com/2013/11/04/good-morning-america-depicts-lax-shooter-with-grenade-launcher-pics/

http://bearingarms.com/abcs-good-mo...lt-rifle-complete-with-40mm-grenade-launcher/

ABC’s Good Morning America took a great deal of liberty with reality this morning, creating a computer animation that equipped Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) shooting suspect Paul Ciancia not with the Smith & Wesson M&P15 modern sporting rifle that he actually used, but instead with a military M16 selective-fire assault rifle and m-203 40mm grenade laucher.

 

[AWP]

Guns and Ammo editor fired over a column. I'm kind of on the fence about this. I resist an infringment upon our rights, but have to wonder if that is inevitible and if the pro-2A crowd (myself included) should get ahead of that change and shape the dialogue. I guess as long as Obamacare is dragging us down no one will seriously worry about guns...

I do worry that any changes would open the floodgates and be used as a rationale for more restrictions. What an ugly, unnecessary scene.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/07/us/gu...after-gun-control-column/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

The editor of Guns & Ammo magazine apologized to readers and resigned immediately, earlier than planned, after he published a column advocating gun control, enraging his readers.
Editor Jim Bequette wanted to "generate a healthy exchange of ideas on gun rights" when he published a commentary by Dick Metcalf, who wrote that he supported regulations on firearms.
Instead, the column in the December issue "aroused unprecedented controversy" among readers who began "questioning 'Guns & Ammo's commitment to the Second Amendment," Bequette wrote in his apology.

 

[Raksasa Kotor]

Guns and Ammo editor fired over a column.

File under: "know your audience."

Thinking that a magazine like Guns & Ammo was an appropriate place for anything appearing to be even remotely pro-gun control shows a stunning lack of forethought by Mr. Bequette and Mr. Metcalf.