West Point Accuses 70+ Cadets of Cheating

[Ooh-Rah]

West Point accuses more than 70 cadets of cheating in worst academic scandal in nearly 45 years

I was going to pass on posting this story, but this paragraph stopped me cold...

Army Col. Mark Weathers, West Point's chief of staff, said in an interview Monday that he was "disappointed" in the cadets for cheating, but he did not consider the incident a serious breach of the code. It would not have occurred if the cadets had taken the exam on campus, he said.

Huh?

Isn’t that the exact opposite of what the Military teaches about integrity?

You know, that whole “what you do when no one is watching” thing?

 

[RackMaster]

Standards everywhere are dropping. Hopefully the system weeds out the offenders down the line.

 

[Gunz]

Bring back flogging.

 

[x SF med]

WTF ever happened to "A cadet shall not lie, cheat or steal; nor tolerate those that do."?

 

[Marauder06]

I’m guessing the Chief of Staff was egregiously misquoted. No West Point senior leader would say something like that. This is a VERY big deal. Navy is having a similar, but larger, issue right now as well.

One of the (many) interesting things to me about this story is the timing. This event happened back in May, but is suddenly news now. Why?

In the past we’ve often seen “scandal” type stories drop right around the big Army/Navy game, both (IMO) to capitalize on the attention on the Academies that happens due to the game, and to influence the game itself.

There is no way something like this was “covered up” by West Point, it is WAY too big and the Corps (and the faculty) are WAY too talkative.

So why did this story break now?

 

[R.Caerbannog]

One of the (many) interesting things to me about this story is the timing. This event happened back in May, but is suddenly news now. Why?

In the past we’ve often seen “scandal” type stories drop up right around the big Army/Navy game, both (IMO) to capitalize on the attention on the Academies that happens due to the game, and to influence the game itself.

There is no way something like this was “covered up” by West Point, it is WAY too big and the COrps (and the faculty) are WAY to talkative.

So why did this story break now?

As a pessimist, I'm guessing the useful idiots in the mainstream media are digging up old dirt to smear the Academy. As for their intentions... I got a few guesses, but they ain't very nice.

 

[ThunderHorse]

I don't know if @Marauder06 and I have had this discussion before, but my brain thinks I have.

I think the three-strike, mentorship, and selective retention policies of the Service Academies is a crock of shit. I guess I understand why DoD implemented them, but I still think they fail.

I remember a story being related to me by a friend who was at the Naval Academy. His roommate had been arrested by their honor court, convicted, and his sentence was "mentorship". Which for many mostly amounts to late graduation.

I went to VMI, VMI for now maintains the only Public College/University single sanction honor system. Although there is some pressure to move to the current policy in place at Service Academies.

You cannot re-train Honor, you either have it at this stage in life or you don't. Many of the people I went through ABOLC with were in the same class as Trent Steelman, it was common knowledge of everyone that he cheated.

At VMI, when a cadet is arrested for an honor violation, the Honor Court does their best to be wholly discreet. Very rarely does the Corps know who's been arrested. Jury members are woken up at 330 in the morning and they and the Honor Court are usually the only people that know who's standing for trial. Jury members are sworn to secrecy.

 

[Marauder06]

Naval Academy reviewing final physics exam after ‘inconsistencies’

I don't know if @Marauder06 and I have had this discussion before, but my brain thinks I have.

I think the three-strike, mentorship, and selective retention policies of the Service Academies is a crock of shit. I guess I understand why DoD implemented them, but I still think they fail.

I remember a story being related to me by a friend who was at the Naval Academy. His roommate had been arrested by their honor court, convicted, and his sentence was "mentorship". Which for many mostly amounts to late graduation.

I went to VMI, VMI for now maintains the only Public College/University single sanction honor system. Although there is some pressure to move to the current policy in place at Service Academies.

You cannot re-train Honor, you either have it at this stage in life or you don't. Many of the people I went through ABOLC with were in the same class as Trent Steelman, it was common knowledge of everyone that he cheated.

At VMI, when a cadet is arrested for an honor violation, the Honor Court does their best to be wholly discreet. Very rarely does the Corps know who's been arrested. Jury members are woken up at 330 in the morning and they and the Honor Court are usually the only people that know who's standing for trial. Jury members are sworn to secrecy.

I totally understand where you’re coming from brother. A lot of people, including many at West Point, feel the same. I’ll have some more thoughts in a couple of days when I can get to a computer.

 

[Gunz]

You cannot re-train Honor, you either have it at this stage in life or you don't.

If you get to one of the service academies and you're cheating on tests, you've got a character flaw that your parents either missed or ignored.

 

[Marauder06]

Anyone ever read “Lying to Ourselves?” I think we discussed it here on the site a couple of years back.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Army football players among 73 cadets who cheated on calculus final exam in May

The last time this many football players were caught violating the honor code it was a single sanction system. The 1951 West Point Football team is famously known as the Code Breakers. Coach Red Blaik's son was one of them and he was dismissed.

Army football players among 73 cadets who cheated on calculus final exam in May

 

[Marauder06]

Army football players among 73 cadets who cheated on calculus final exam in May

The last time this many football players were caught violating the honor code it was a single sanction system. The 1951 West Point Football team is famously known as the Code Breakers. Coach Red Blaik's son was one of them and he was dismissed.

Army football players among 73 cadets who cheated on calculus final exam in May

Wow. That's going to hurt.

The Superintendent is (or maybe has, at this point) going to make a public announcement about this. When that happens, I'll post it here unless someone else beats me to it.

Also, I'm pretty sure I'm in the photo that accompanied that article:

 

[Grunt]

In the academic world...I despise cheaters!

In the military academies...I abhor them even more strongly....

 

[Marauder06]

This is the Superintendent's letter that went out to both faculty and alumni and is intended for public release. I'm posting it without comment because it's an ongoing investigation.

As to the overall process, generally speaking I think that the "developmental" model is superior to the "attritional" model. Most people coming to the Academies didn't come up in a military system and can't, IMO, be expected to to inculcate everything necessary to become a leader of character specifically, and an Army officer more generally, right away.

Let's be honest: there are degrees of dishonesty that are acceptable in the active force, even among officers. We all know that everything isn't as black-and-white in "the real Army" as it is in the Academies' honor codes. I think integrity is super-important, but I think that character is a process, and it can be improved with training and time. I've served as a developmental coach in the past, and it's not easy. In short, I think the "willful admission" process (which was in place before the current Supe) is overall a good thing, and I'm OK with discretion in honor cases.

 

[ThunderHorse]

I don't even respectfully disagree. I disagree and I think that letter just doesn't cut it. When you have this many who willfully cheat, they need to go.

For me, you know my background. You know the system I was held to. I held to that Code willingly.

Things like Plagiarism or Academic cheating are a clear cut thing for me versus say lying about how much time you had between PT and Formation and were sweating at Supper Roll Call.

I know a few early 70s Alumni and they're like WTFF!

 

[SpongeBob*24]

I also disagree!

If they cheat or break the code now, what will they do when things actually get stressful. They are in a classroom environment. The Commandant nailed it when he said they chose "the easy wrong over the hard right". They should be held accountable for this. If those come forward and "own it", then I'm all for them doing a year or two away and coming back. But a slap on the wrist just doesn't seem fair.

Just My 2 rubles!!!

 

[Marauder06]

I also disagree!

If they cheat or break the code now, what will they do when things actually get stressful. They are in a classroom environment. The Commandant nailed it when he said they chose "the easy wrong over the hard right". They should be held accountable for this. If those come forward and "own it", then I'm all for them doing a year or two away and coming back. But a slap on the wrist just doesn't seem fair.

Just My 2 rubles!!!

There are ways of holding people accountable that are short of expulsion. If a cadet does the Willful Admission Program, or if they are found guilty by the Honor Board and are allowed to stay, they are basically on probation for the rest of their time at the Academy, and as previously discussed, the mentorship program is pretty intense. It's definitely not the same as getting kicked out, but IMO it's not a mere slap on the wrist either.

 

[Kaldak]

I'm sorry. That statement bullshit, and an excuse, if you ask me.

At OCS, one honor code violation and bye-bye. You're going back to the enlisted ranks. Not expelled, but as a non-prior, enjoy 4 years enlisted at needs of the Army.

I saw it happen to five different candidates in five different instances. You're telling me that "ring knockers" can't meet those same standards?

Come on, man.

 

[Intel Nerd]

Let's be honest: there are degrees of dishonesty that are acceptable in the active force, even among officers. We all know that everything isn't as black-and-white in "the real Army" as it is in the Academies' honor codes.

Just preparing the Cadets to make sure their slides are all Green when they take Company Command.

We all know it's true.

In my second unit before my second deployment to Afghanistan, my Troop managed 100% training on three weeks of CLS, range qualifications, roll over training, all miraculously in one four day week of half days.

 

[DA SWO]

Football players need to be kicked off the team, sucks to be them.

Not hammering them sends a message that certain athletes are untouchable. Remember the big sex scandal at the AF Academy? Football players were at the heart, the Coach retired when he and the team were held to a standard.
They can stay, they just can't play football and I would drop them to the bottom of their class ranking regardless of GPA or other factors.