Truscott resigned his commission to avoid going to Vietnam 13 months after graduating from West Point so I'll take his points with a grain of salt. He graduated in 69 so it's not like Vietnam was an unknown commodity while he was a student.
West Point Accuses 70+ Cadets of Cheating
- Thread starter Ooh-Rah
- Start date
Kraut783
SOF Support
Thanks Teufel, I was wondering the back story on him....especially when his bio in the story has him graduating West Point, but no military service listed.
I think they should be held to a higher standard than a typical college student, not to mention they took a slot from someone whom probably has a higher moral compass. Any other college student in that same scenario gets kicked out of school. Integrity is doing the right thing even when nobody is looking.
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Yes, exactly - the 70+ students who confessed to cheating were selected for the slots they currently hold. Either theres a serious problem with the processes of the institution or this is an isolated incident.
If you have faith in West Point’s ability to select & produce top level officers, have faith in their ability to manage a trivial situation such as this.
They know what they’re doing is all Im saying.
For comparison purposes, here's an article on cheating at another elite school:
Cheating at Yale: Students get honest about academic dishonesty
"Yale isn't West Point" yeah, I know that.
Cheating at Yale: Students get honest about academic dishonesty
"Yale isn't West Point" yeah, I know that.
Devildoc
Verified Military
It's merely a symptom of a much bigger problem in most academic institutions, which is arbitrary and capricious justice with a sliding scale of rules. It's like 'Who's Line Is It Anyway?': the rules are made up and the points don't matter. College honor courts overlook sexual assaults but want to toss out someone who cheats on an exam. Athletes held to a different standard. Don't get me started on the greek system.
I know service academies are supposed to be held to a higher standard--and they should--but why are people surprised when college teenagers gonna teenage?
I know service academies are supposed to be held to a higher standard--and they should--but why are people surprised when college teenagers gonna teenage?
As a current Navy employee, at some point if those midshipmen stick around long enough they'll be my boss. The excuse of they are just teenagers is a copout.
Every day midshipmen are challenged to follow the Navy's core values of honor, courage, and commitment. Those guilty have shown they lack all those, specifically honor and courage. How many more students knew of the cheating but failed to say anything? Part of being an officer is doing the right thing even when it's hard. Some of them will have to face much more difficult choices in a few short months when they are leading sailors/Marines.
We ask this daily of young enlistees and have seen many fry and lose their careers because teenagers gonna teenage. Ones actions are their own responsibility and nobody else's. Don't blame it on them just being teenagers or college students.
Every day midshipmen are challenged to follow the Navy's core values of honor, courage, and commitment. Those guilty have shown they lack all those, specifically honor and courage. How many more students knew of the cheating but failed to say anything? Part of being an officer is doing the right thing even when it's hard. Some of them will have to face much more difficult choices in a few short months when they are leading sailors/Marines.
We ask this daily of young enlistees and have seen many fry and lose their careers because teenagers gonna teenage. Ones actions are their own responsibility and nobody else's. Don't blame it on them just being teenagers or college students.
Devildoc
Verified Military
My 'N' of 1: A friend of mine went to Annapolis (class of 90). Went SWO, served on all sorts of boats big and small, retired in 2014 a captain. I guess he was a good officer, but I don't know much about how his FITREPS were; but to this day he brags to me about how drunk he'd get, the girls he'd screw, how he'd sneak out of the barracks and generally be a college kid. Sometimes he got caught, sometimes he didn't. He walks the fence with this, trying to be both 'boys-will-be-boys' and 'these-are-future-leaders-and-this-is-unacceptable'.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
My BiL is a Naval Academy grad. The Naval Academy experience is significantly different from every other service Academy because it's in a Capitol city that is fairly large. You walk through the gates and you're literally in Annapolis. I would say they only comparable experience is "The Citadel" for an SMC. I've heard a bunch of stories about how they'd rent hotel rooms in Annapolis and party, take off their uniforms and blend into the crowd.
West Point? There are bars in a few of the towns outside of Post, but the size of those places are tiny. Most of the cadets go to NYC to do their partying.
At VMI, even first classmen we could not be in public out of uniform. If we went to houses of host families or cadets whose folks leased places out in the county we'd often taken off our uniforms and put our gym clothes to be comfortable. But no one had civilian clothes unless it was a party that got a permit approved. Lexington, VA, had four bars at the time, a few more now, but it's still a tiny place. And the Commandants staff would patrol up town all weekend looking for drunken cadets.
Devildoc
Verified Military
Yeah, I have been to both places (West Point and Annapolis). Beautiful settings both, and I can absolutely see how the city setting is enticing if you are on the other side of the wall. West point is a bit too much in-the-sticks for me.
Dude, youre gonna have plenty of officers (many more actually) hailing from places like Penn State, UCLA, Auburn University, Michigan, West Virginia or some random ass college that gave 10x the level of leeway these kids in mil style colleges are getting.
They will all be officers.
Meanwhile we’re all pulling these 70+ honor & courage cards and making assessments of how good they’ll perform in the military over their mistake for which they will obviously be punished for? They will already have endured a tenure at a military school instead of insert-name university so if anything theyre more prepared than your standard entry-level.
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Tracking, and if those students did the same thing my opinion of them would be equal.
Kraut783
SOF Support
Just out of curiosity, I don't know, but...while they are students, they are considered in the military (?), hell, there is a West Point CID office there. I assume they are subject to UCMJ, right?
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Kind of. Operation of West Point has it's own AR. AR 150-1 https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/ARN5862_AR150-1_FINAL.pdf
Here's a 2015 Copy Standards of Cadet Conduct: https://www.unibw.de/internationale...rds of Cadet Conduct and Appearance_SEP15.pdf
This one is from the West Point grad who wrote the book "Platoon Leader." Some of you may have seen the movie or read the book.
If West Point Tolerates Cheating, It Violates Its Own Honor Code
If West Point Tolerates Cheating, It Violates Its Own Honor Code
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Not really West Point, but about Honor Systems. Currently VMI is under tremendous pressures from the legislature to change a lot of things.
The Previous Superintendent General (Ret) JH Binford Peay resigned in the fall. An inflection point since the Charlottesville protest was Jackson's statue which had stood in front of Barracks for over 100 years. It was also sculpted and gifted to the Instituted by VMI's first Jewish Graduate. So there is a lot of emotion tied to this.
However, one of the things that is straight up under attack by the press and misinformed legislators is how our honor code even works. The only people they've talked to have been former cadets who were found guilty by a jury of their peers.
The interim Superintendent is Major General (Ret) Cedric T Wins. He sat down with a writer from the Washington Post for an interview regarding the Honor Code at VMI. The writer has been pretty much a scumbag, in my opinion, from the beginning of this over the past 18 months in his attacks of the Institute and the systems that are in place.
Here is the transcript of MG Wins Interview: Interview Transcripts - Governance - Virginia Military Institute
The Previous Superintendent General (Ret) JH Binford Peay resigned in the fall. An inflection point since the Charlottesville protest was Jackson's statue which had stood in front of Barracks for over 100 years. It was also sculpted and gifted to the Instituted by VMI's first Jewish Graduate. So there is a lot of emotion tied to this.
However, one of the things that is straight up under attack by the press and misinformed legislators is how our honor code even works. The only people they've talked to have been former cadets who were found guilty by a jury of their peers.
The interim Superintendent is Major General (Ret) Cedric T Wins. He sat down with a writer from the Washington Post for an interview regarding the Honor Code at VMI. The writer has been pretty much a scumbag, in my opinion, from the beginning of this over the past 18 months in his attacks of the Institute and the systems that are in place.
Here is the transcript of MG Wins Interview: Interview Transcripts - Governance - Virginia Military Institute
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Well the Air Force Academy Corps of Cadets said: HOLD MY BEER.
Cheating scandal during COVID lockdown ensnares 249 Air Force Academy cadets
Cheating scandal during COVID lockdown ensnares 249 Air Force Academy cadets
Imagine losing a pilot slot to a cheater.
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