TLDR20
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Women in Combat Arms/ SOF Discussion
- Thread starter AWP
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It didn't use to be like that either. When you were told you were being "Recycled" it meant you were either a "Day One Recycle" meaning RAP Week, RPAT, Land Nav, Road March, Malvesti....the whole enchilada, or back to Day One, beginning of that particular Phase.
Line up now for your shirts.......
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TLDR20
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It didn't use to be like that either. When you were told you were being "Recycled" it meant you were either a "Day One Recycle" meaning RAP Week, RPAT, Land Nav, Road March, Malvesti....the whole enchilada, or back to Day One, beginning of that particular Phase.
Line up now for your shirts.......
So my buddy told me if you recycle for spot reports it is day 1. He said he was concerned because he has 5 out of 8 possible already, and he was pretty beat up and unlikely to pass the RPAT if he had to again after the brutal Darby phase and upcoming mountains. I'm hearing everything from a beat down student on his 8 hour pass though.
Regarding the females. they haven't posted a break down matrix on specifics yet, but was told it included all 3: Peers, Spots and Patrols. Will know more tomorrow.
Darby (As in Camp Darby) is an out lying Camp, about 8-9 miles from Camp Rogers (Which is located on Fort Benning) and Camp Darby, is not.
The Gulag as it's known, (AKA Vaughn's Platoon) is located at Camp Rogers, where recycles, get additional training and also do details assigned to them, while waiting to form up at their respective times, with the next class, or a class, to be designated (Such as a student with a med problem, not serious enough, to send to a hospital or back to a unit, but needs more time to heal than say, the very next class that comes along)
Every Camp, to include Rogers, Mountains (Camp Merrill ) and Florida (Camp Rudder) all have their own version of a Gulag, per se.
Enough Spots (Major Minus) would get you a Day One. An SOR (Negative) is the most serious and can get you dropped with a "DNR" attached to it. Minor "Minus" Spots and Major "Minus" Spots can be offset with enough of the opposites (Major / Minor "Plus" Spots) If he only has Minors, tell him not to sweat it, but just don't get any more. He just needs to kick ass in the Mountains, and do well on his patrols. The first week will be Mountaineering and Squad Level Patrols. The second week will culminate with Yonah, Section Level Patrols and an FTX. Let him know not be the source of any Breaks In Contact, mainly because, that's when they start to occur BIG TIME. If he's put on security, (LP/OP etc) PB perimeter security, or security at any time, he better not be caught sleeping. RI's have a knack for checking security TM's as they have (Students) a tendency to get a false sense of complacency, and seem to think, because their away from everyone else, no one will know. Trust me, they'll know. If he's good at Land Nav, there's lots of opportunity for him to get a plus, mainly because whenever Map Checks are done, most PL's, if not all, never get it right. lol
Peers, like Spots, are cumulative in nature, meaning depending how bad they are, you could get a recycle for just that phase or if they're really bad you'll get a board. And for most, they will recycle for just that Phase. Pass that Phase and accumulate more, then, at a minimum, you're looking at going before a BN Board, more than likely, a BDE board.
Patrols are more diminutive. 9 times out of 10, it's a partial recycle, with concentration on what that individual is having problems with. For instance, in the Mountains, if they smoked Mountaineering and the Knot Test, they'll skip that and be assigned to a Squad once they start a Planning Phase. Now, if they're a wiz at Planning and getting all Go's for a Planning Graded Phase, and they suck at being in charge for say a movement Phase, that's more than likely what that students next graded portion will be. Same thing with Actions On The Objective and / or a Patrol Base grade.
They can recycle nine times total or until 6 months have passed. Then it's bye bye.
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I can agree with that. The 3-patrol thing has been around since I went through in 2006 when then-COL Chinn was RTB Cdr.
The recycles will make it or they won't. We'll see.
Young_devil1214
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http://www.navytimes.com/story/mili...n-female-seal-navy-combat-exclusion/27653965/
Just wondering if anyone has read this?
Personally I find this to be abautelt absurd. Although I'm not on a team (so take this with a grain of salt) but proposing a "gender neutral standard" is the exact same thing as lowering the standards.
I don't understand this PC bullshit going on in our military. Especially in Special Operations. As the article also says this will effect the Marine Corps as well.
If women can meet the current standards (again I'm not on a team so their input would be nice) then hell let them in. But these idiots on Washington are going to get people killed.
Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
Just wondering if anyone has read this?
Personally I find this to be abautelt absurd. Although I'm not on a team (so take this with a grain of salt) but proposing a "gender neutral standard" is the exact same thing as lowering the standards.
I don't understand this PC bullshit going on in our military. Especially in Special Operations. As the article also says this will effect the Marine Corps as well.
If women can meet the current standards (again I'm not on a team so their input would be nice) then hell let them in. But these idiots on Washington are going to get people killed.
Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
If the SEALS are just looking for females to help them grow more luscious hair, why not just invite PJs in?
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Would you be willing to expand more on this? Both in the case of Rangers and SEAL's. Is the Secretary of the Navy not the final word, or does current leadership within the teams have some sort of power to override what SecNav says? Not questioning you in any way, just genuinely want to better understand.
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I am thinking that this this statement from the article could cause some potential anxiety:
"First we're going to make sure there are standards, second that they're gender-neutral and third that they have something to do with the job," Mabus told Navy Times.
"First we're going to make sure there are standards, second that they're gender-neutral and third that they have something to do with the job," Mabus told Navy Times.
We have an entire multi-page thread on the topic.
Hopefully, the branches and units that are having to deal with this issue will be able to hold on to what they have now until there is a change in administration.
If they are able to and a new administration wants to -- or decides to -- continue down the path we are heading now, hopefully they will leave the standards as they are now -- without changing them -- and then move forward.
If the standards remain the same and a female passes them...then there isn't much anyone can argue against...as standards go...and then the next issue will have to be addressed as I am sure there will be a "next issue."
After all...selections are "just the beginning." Then comes the ability to have to continue meeting standards "day in and day out".
If they are able to and a new administration wants to -- or decides to -- continue down the path we are heading now, hopefully they will leave the standards as they are now -- without changing them -- and then move forward.
If the standards remain the same and a female passes them...then there isn't much anyone can argue against...as standards go...and then the next issue will have to be addressed as I am sure there will be a "next issue."
After all...selections are "just the beginning." Then comes the ability to have to continue meeting standards "day in and day out".
Florida173
SOF Support
Ranger school is a leadership producing school, not a combat arms related school. Although I agree with what you are saying, there is a big difference in what it would mean for passing either.
Well if a woman does make it we all know they will write a book or make a movie about it. Or one of their classmates will. It may be a graduation requirement now for all I know.
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FTFY
A female Officer just attempted SASR selection, she got about 9 days in, but had been dragging the chain almost since day one. She did everything, even the nude kit check on day one, but just didn't have the horse power, very fit, but not big enough.
I think this will remain the case until we see some young women who in a previous life were big and tall, serious top level strength athletes, throwing disciplines, rugby forwards, Olympic lifters, enlisting and attempting selection. A 5'6" 110lb cross fitter is just not going to have the grunt power to keep up on a top flight Infantry/SOF course.
I think this will remain the case until we see some young women who in a previous life were big and tall, serious top level strength athletes, throwing disciplines, rugby forwards, Olympic lifters, enlisting and attempting selection. A 5'6" 110lb cross fitter is just not going to have the grunt power to keep up on a top flight Infantry/SOF course.
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