Women in Combat Arms/ SOF Discussion

[Mac_NZ]

snip

General Morrison is sure as hell no General Sir Cosgrove, if Uncle Pete had made that same speech I might have taken it to heart.

 

[digrar]

He's got some valid points, but he's too divisive to ever get his own team on board, he's not particularly a good leader.

 

[Il Duce]

I thought GEN Morrison expressed CDR's intent for what we would call SHARP and EO policies in the US Army very clearly - something in short supply across the US force. I don't know how any leader would ever be an effective subordinate if they had to run CDR's intent through the sieve of what they think of the CDR personally, what their politic skills/agenda is, or what their political views are.

If a CDR is insincere or unwilling to enforce their stated policies that will come through with experience and action. But, if I'm judging on what a CDR is saying - this guy says it pretty clearly.

 

[Etype]

The BLUF of it is, think about the injury and deployment turnover rate of our infantry and SOF groups in Afghanistan and Iraq and what that has done to retention. I can expand more if you like.

What is a, "deployment turnover rate?" Are you talking about turnover during deployments, amount of deployments, or turnover in general?

I was told that the sensitive nature of my paper would require me to be very PC and would have the possibility of popping up should I ever want a star...

I want to laugh out of my chair at this, but I've been desensitized through several years on this forum.

As you work to finish you bachelors and become an officer, remember, there are a number of people on this forum who have masters degrees in deployment history (6+ years total time deployed).

Don't outrun your headlights.

 

[ThunderHorse]

General Morrison was recently awarded Australian of the year. Apart from some very senior officers, the veteran community kicked up a huge fuss. He is not well liked and is seen as agenda driven and quick to ditch the troops he led, for his 15 minutes of fame as a fighter for women's rights, something that garners him 5 figure sums on the lecture circuit.
This particular speech was written by his transgender speech writer. S/he was was also nominated for Australian of the Year and was not a happy little camper when Morrison got the gong.
Most of the people he references at the start of the video clip did little more than receive an email. Most did not open it. He wrecked a number of 20+ year careers for receiving an email. One was terminated for having a brother who also served getting the email. The whole issue had actually been investigated, only one person was ever convicted (an ex service civilian who was the instigator of the email) and listed as pretty much a non event until it became convenient for him to make it a big event.
He had a similar over reaction to posts on a Regiment facebook group becoming public (His Regiment in fact). About 2000 of us received a letter where he denigrated all of our service, over the actions of a few people, on a closed private page.

Morrison was quite happy to walk past the standard, until it became politically and ultimately financially beneficial to take a stand. he's a grub.

Sounds like the SHARP training we go through all the time...

 

[DocIllinois]

In other news, my state has decided to create an excess spot in every Infantry unit for a female E-5 who has been through the Infantry Transition Course.

Her purpose, currently, will be only to act as a liaison to any incoming lower enlisted female 11Bs (a few of whom are already in RSP.) She will not be assigned to a position in an operational platoon.

This was mentioned while the officers in my unit did a Women in the Infantry sensing session this past weekend. Many hands in the horseshoe formation went up with the same concern: if we're going for integration then why immediately alienate someone, an NCO especially, by putting them into an untouchable excess spot?

Our CO goes to the Brigade level sensing deal with unit comments and suggestions early next month.

 

[TLDR20]

In other news, my state has decided to create an excess spot in every Infantry unit for a female E-5 who has been through the Infantry Transition Course.

Her purpose, currently, will be only to act as a liaison to any incoming lower enlisted female 11Bs (a few of whom are already in RSP.) She will not be assigned to a position in an operational platoon.

This was mentioned while the officers in my unit did a Women in the Infantry sensing session this past weekend. Many hands in the horseshoe formation went up with the same concern: if we're going for integration then why immediately alienate someone, an NCO especially, by putting them into an untouchable excess spot?

Our CO goes to the Brigade level sensing deal with unit comments and suggestions early next month.

Are you in an infantry unit?

I'm not trying to be an asshole just curious.

 

[DocIllinois]

Are you in an infantry unit?

I'm not trying to be an asshole just curious.

An officer in one, yes.

 

[NFB19]

What is a, "deployment turnover rate?" Are you talking about turnover during deployments, amount of deployments, or turnover in general?


I want to laugh out of my chair at this, but I've been desensitized through several years on this forum.

As you work to finish you bachelors and become an officer, remember, there are a number of people on this forum who have masters degrees in deployment history (6+ years total time deployed).

Don't outrun your headlights.

Amount of deployments.

I've received a lot of flak about the whole GO comment. After reading what I put I realize it looks like I'm just a careerist looking to climb the military hierarchy before I've even really entered it. Perhaps that is how my instructor meant it; I don't think so, when he said it, I took it as, if you want your military career to last longer than your obligated five years, then you'll need to take ownership of this order and find reasons to support it. I wasn't about to regurgitate the illogical arguments that are being spewed today, so I wrote my paper hypothetically with the argument based on the success of integration at the rate the DoD hopes for. Basically, I said if this works, here's the best case scenerio. I even examined cultures who have used women as critical assets in their combat arms teams, i.e. Soviets and Israelis. With those examples I did mention their integration was/is forced due to their state of conflict, one which we have not been seriously threatened with for over a century.

 

[TLDR20]

An officer in one, yes.

Did they only poll infantryman?

 

[DocIllinois]

Did they only poll infantryman?

Yes, our session only included Infantry. We are a standalone Infantry unit and it was a MUTA drill.

It was not a poll as the time for something like that has long passed, but a Q&A and feedback/ concerns session.

 

[AWP]

In other news, my state has decided to create an excess spot in every Infantry unit for a female E-5 who has been through the Infantry Transition Course.

I'm not justifying this..."interesting" move, but once upon a time the Guard could carry a certain percentage of overage slots up to E-5. Are they creating a slot or setting aside one of these overage slots for the female NCO? The issue of rank makes me think it is the latter. Still garbage, but operating with the system at least vice opening a position.

 

[DocIllinois]

I'm not justifying this..."interesting" move, but once upon a time the Guard could carry a certain percentage of overage slots up to E-5. Are they creating a slot or setting aside one of these overage slots for the female NCO? The issue of rank makes me think it is the latter. Still garbage, but operating with the system at least vice opening a position.

The spot has been created specifically for a female E-5 who has been through the Infantry Transition Course.

If it were an existing overage spot then we could (and likely would) simply fill it with a male E-5. State would be pissed in that case but whatever.

It is garbage, I agree.

 

[DA SWO]

The spot has been created specifically for a female E-5 who has been through the Infantry Transition Course.

If it were an existing overage spot then we could (and likely would) simply fill it with a male E-5. State would be pissed in that case but whatever.

It is garbage, I agree.

Maybe not.
Hopefully you get solid NCO's vice SJW's. A good "Liaison" NCO can work both sides of the issue and nip things quickly.

 

[AWP]

The spot has been created specifically for a female E-5 who has been through the Infantry Transition Course.

If it were an existing overage spot then we could (and likely would) simply fill it with a male E-5. State would be pissed in that case but whatever.

It is garbage, I agree.

The Guard sinks to a new low.

I'm with @DA SWO on this, hopefully (hope is a dangerous thing) the position is filled with good NCO's and not women with an agenda or weak-minded careerists given biased marching orders. Given my cynicism and pessimism we can all guess what I think will happen. Time will tell.

 

[DocIllinois]

The Guard sinks to a new low.

I'm with @DA SWO on this, hopefully (hope is a dangerous thing) the position is filled with good NCO's and not women with an agenda or weak-minded careerists given biased marching orders. Given my cynicism and pessimism we can all guess what I think will happen. Time will tell.

The general unit sentiment to this action was, "If you're going to integrate women into the Infantry, then fucking integrate them. Don't make them aliens right from the get go."

This isn't taking for granted that the female NCO will not be motivated to train with the line platoons, find ways to contribute in a meaningful manner, and learn about ground level life in the Infantry and all that.

The most effective way to facilitate those things, which they should be IMO, is to put her into a TL spot like any incoming male E5.

 

[TLDR20]

The general unit sentiment to this action was, "If you're going to integrate women into the Infantry, then fucking integrate them. Don't make them aliens right from the get go."

This isn't taking for granted that the female NCO will not be motivated to train with the line platoons, find ways to contribute in a meaningful manner, and learn about ground level life in the Infantry and all that.

The most effective way to facilitate those things, which they should be IMO, is to put her into a TL spot like any incoming male E5.

That would be a cherry ass team leader.

 

[AWP]

That would be a cherry ass team leader.

They would, but if you send them to the unit as an E-5, what other options are there? Dump her at BN in a -3 slot for a year so she can learn about the environment and see ops from that perspective? That limits how many you can integrate into the line companies. They are NCO's so placing them in a quasi-SPC role could be problematic. You either slot them as a B team leader or place two NCO's in the B fire team but neuter her by essentially stripping her of any NCO responsibility, but she still draws the pay...which alienates the other male soldiers.

It is a shit sandwich and there are no good answers. I totally agree with you, but is there a good solution or a bunch of lesser evils?

 

[DocIllinois]

IMHO, things will be a whole lot smoother if the first incoming females are GTG on PT, have a very thick skin, and humble enough to admit that they don't know what they don't know.

The integration will still be a bastard and take ages, and likely some corrective counseling, but with the above in place the struggle will be eased somewhat.

Although, we've got some males who aren't so hot at the above so time will indeed tell.

 

[DA SWO]

IMHO, things will be a whole lot smoother if the first incoming females are GTG on PT, have a very thick skin, and humble enough to admit that they don't know what they don't know.

The integration will still be a bastard and take ages, and likely some corrective counseling, but with the above in place the struggle will be eased somewhat.

Although, we've got some males who aren't so hot at the above so time will indeed tell.

They change or move on, happens all the time.