Women in Combat Arms/ SOF Discussion

[Ooh-Rah]

Someone please tell me the author isnt a Hackworth acolyte. Ugh.

The site continues to hack away my one time “heroes”. Hackworth was someone I read and listened to on a very regular basis. I was genuinely saddened when cancer ate his body away.

Not to derail this thread too much, but what’s the beef with Hack?

 

[AWP]

Not to derail this thread too much, but what’s the beef with Hack?

I'll shoot you a PM in the next day or two. This is one of those topics that I haven't thought about in years. I digested the info at the time, made up my mind, and pressed. What little I remember is that his emotion started getting the better of him. He was never as bad as Mike Yon, so that's a plus.

 

[Topkick]

The site continues to hack away my one time “heroes”. Hackworth was someone I read and listened to on a very regular basis. I was genuinely saddened when cancer ate his body away.

Not to derail this thread too much, but what’s the beef with Hack?

Same here. I was a Hackworth fan at one time. I thought he was a little unhinged at times, but overall, I liked his perspective. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts, @AWP.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Same here. I was a Hackworth fan at one time. I thought he was a little unhinged at times, but overall, I liked his perspective. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts, @AWP.

Assuming @AWP has no objection, I’ll add you to the PM he sent with a couple of links that gave me a different perspective of the man.

 

[Marine0311]

Assuming @AWP has no objection, I’ll add you to the PM he sent with a couple of links that gave me a different perspective of the man.

If there is no objection to any of you add me please.

 

[Cookie_]

We have members with inside knowledge, ties to instructors at the various SOF schools, stuff like that. When they speak I listen and some of the stories in that article aren't news to a few of us. If anything, I'd say there's a lot more to the story.

With that said, they volunteer what they know or they don't. If some of them want to come forward, great. If not, that's fine by us too. We're not burning sources and the staff would frown upon members running their own HUMINT programs on other members of this board.

The board can believe what it wants about that article, but some of us have seen most of those details already. I did some digging and the author was close to David Hackworth...disappointing but I doubt anything in the article is incorrect.

YMMV.

Looking back at my post, I should have clarified a bit better. I know the board has members in such positions, and I have no doubt in the truth of whatever information or stories they provide.

It was supposed to be more along the lines of "if I were unaware of this board or anyone close to the community" line of questioning.

 

[Devildoc]

Our fears of integrating women in combat arms continue to pan out:

One of the First Women in the Infantry Will Be Discharged From the Marines

 

[J.]

Our fears of integrating women in combat arms continue to pan out:

One of the First Women in the Infantry Will Be Discharged From the Marines

“Regardless of the outcome of this case, Corporal Cruz has been a courageous pioneer for women in the military and she has earned a place in Marine Corps history,” Captain Johnston said in a statement.

I actually want to vomit..

 

[Devildoc]

“Regardless of the outcome of this case, Corporal Cruz has been a courageous pioneer for women in the military and she has earned a place in Marine Corps history,” Captain Johnston said in a statement.

I actually want to vomit..

They are talking out of both sides of their mouth: She is a courageous pioneer...who violated the UCMJ and is getting booted.

 

[Cookie_]

The issue with this is the same as with the 1SG from a week or so ago; leaders getting horizontal with their troops. Fraternization has always been an issue in the military, so I don't see it as a problem just because of integration. It's a human issue, and those are always going to occur at a greater than zero percent.

Frat aside, I think the adultery and accessory to larceny charges are more of a story here.

 

[Centermass]

The site continues to hack away my one time “heroes”. Hackworth was someone I read and listened to on a very regular basis. I was genuinely saddened when cancer ate his body away.

Not to derail this thread too much, but what’s the beef with Hack?

I'll keep this short so as not to derail the thread, but up until this point, I too, was a fan of his. I lost all respect for him afterwards.

Hackworth claimed and wore a Ranger Tab without attending or graduating Ranger School. He wore it all the way up until the 1997-1998 time frame.

He was outed by those who ran the 75th Ranger Regiment Association at the time and later said that it must have been an oversight and that he requested a 'review' of his records to insure all his awards were correct. Said that he had so many awards it was hard to keep track of them all.

This occurred after Hackworth had outed a Navy Commander named 'Boorda' for wearing a 'V' device on one of his awards that was unearned. But Boorda, feeling shamed and dishonored, took his life with a pistol.

But when Hackworth was outed for wearing an unearned Ranger Tab, all he delivered was excuses.

JOURNALIST WHO ACCUSED BOORDA IS CHALLENGED

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Said that he had so many awards it was hard to keep track of them all.

Wow. I cannot imagine any Ranger being very forgiving of that comment....all but completely discounting what it takes to earn that Tab.

 

[Cookie_]

Hack and his career could be it's own thread. Maybe it should.

It's best to think of him in two distinct eras; military and journalism. Read and apply the lessons from the military one; disregard most everything in the other.

 

[Centermass]

In his own recommendation, Colonel Norton wrote that from an “institutional point of view, we did not set up Sgt. Cruz for success” and said the fraternization was the result of an “inadequate knowledge of and guidance to young Marines from the battalion chain of command.”

No, the human role of differences between the sexes did that for you Colonel.

 

[Devildoc]

The issue with this is the same as with the 1SG from a week or so ago; leaders getting horizontal with their troops. Fraternization has always been an issue in the military, so I don't see it as a problem just because of integration. It's a human issue, and those are always going to occur at a greater than zero percent.

Frat aside, I think the adultery and accessory to larceny charges are more of a story here.

How many men are accused of fraternization in a combat unit?

Not speaking to the issue as it relates to historically integrated units or MOSs, but as it relates to combat arms. I do think it's disingenuous to charge with adultery though.

 

[Box]

but but but
fraternization should be considered a victimless crime
consenting adults doing what consenting adults do when they are alone and consenting
dare I ask - is the service trying to legislate what this young Marine was doing in the privacy of her own bedroom?

 

[ThunderHorse]

Where's the adultery charge coming from I wonder.

I could write a long story about my old wingman. But I'll try to be short. When I moved onto Division staff my replacement as the S1 of the squadron was pretty female AG Officer whom I wasn't sure if I liked or not. Well she sunk her hooks into the S4, basically identified the Alpha of the Promotable first Lieutenants and went after him. He and I are still best friends to this day, she was the first chick he ever talked about. Inside of three months of her being at the unit they were engaged. He went to Maneuver Captain's Career course shortly after proposing. They then got "secretly" married at month 7 and were doing the distance thing. She and I had become friends over that period of time and multiple times of Myself and my GF having dinner with her were canceled over that period of time.

She then started having some weird behavior. He goes to Pre-Ranger after MCCC and his wife says: "we're getting divorced" [Month 9]. Find out she's dating a Sergeant First Class in our old unit. We had a long weekend, and he booked plane tickets to come see her before he had report back for his Pre-Ranger recycle. She said if he came out to El Paso she'd leave until Tuesday and he wouldn't know where to find her. He then reported to Pre-Ranger, passed, went to Darby, recycled had a 12 hour pass and had divorce papers in his mailbox...literally no time to fight it, sent the docs to his dad who had the lawyers at his corporate office look it over. They said sign it because when she went to court while he was back in Ranger school he could get fucked. So he signed it, repeated Darby, passed and then went home during Christmas Exodus and she was being a real bitch about giving him a copy of their entire divorce decree and had to file for it.

So inside of 13 Months she had two different engagement rings on her finger. The SFC she was dating is now a 1SG and we have no idea what she's up to because she changed her last name and every single person that new her husband on social. Their relationship wasn't a secret and her CoC did nothing. My old wingman, well he's whole again and dating a civilian that is his age rather than a woman who was four year younger.

 

[Cookie_]

How many men are accused of fraternization in a combat unit?

I don't have any numbers to provide, which is a task I'll try and find later. All I have is what I've seen when I was active.

To see someone, combat arms or not, charged for Fraternization under the UCMJ, was very few and far between.

To see someone get in trouble for violating the policy, however, happened all the time. Severity depended on command.
Especially after the policy was updated in 2013/2014(?) to be any relationship between ranks, regardless of command or unit relationship.

 

[Florida173]

For the first time since the Army opened its special operations jobs to women in 2016, a female soldier has completed the initial Special Forces Assessment and Selection process, a spokesman for Army Special Operations Command has confirmed to Army Times..

A female soldier has made it through the Army’s Special Forces selection

 

[Devildoc]

A female soldier has made it through the Army’s Special Forces selection

I just read that elsewhere.