Women in Combat Arms/ SOF Discussion

[ThunderHorse]

I really don't have any beef with this whole test, other than that I think there was no need to cut out the APFT. I always felt that we should add a CFT and mirror the Marine Corps in that regard.

Now...the last rendition of the change that had a high jump was insane. It made no fucking sense, so glad that got shut down.

 

[NikNifSik]

I did a practice PT test under the new standards a couple of weeks ago. I found most of the events to be very easy. And very silly. The first time I ever threw a 10# ball backwards over my head in my entire military career was that PT test. Nailed it. Dead lift? What-evs. Shuttle runs? OK I was out of breath but it wasn't much of a drama. Hand release pushups? "this is really stupid, but OK." Last event before the run: leg raises.

Number of reps I completed: 0.

I never attempted leg raises before this practice PT test. I always more-than-max the situps on the APFT so I thought this was going to be easy. But it's a totally different technique. I tried to kip with my legs to get them up to the bar and my sweaty hands slipped off. Event terminated.

It's technique. Once people (including me) get a couple of reps in, I think we'll see a dramatic decline in failures, particularly of the leg raises.

Agreed on the technique being key. I for one, prefer doing the leg tucks over the sit-ups, but I struggle maxing the sit-ups being so top-heavy. Army standard for passing this new test overall seems pretty easy, but maxing is no joke, significantly harder than the PT test in my opinion. I think this is a step in the right direction. Not sure why there are standards deviations for females to males, but none for age. If a 20-year female stud wants to be SOF, good on her, she should have to do what the 20-year-old male does, at least for minimums. Equal opportunity is not the same as equal outcome.

 

[Arf]

Not sure about the second, but here is one

First Female SEAL Candidate Quits

None of the women in both the SEAL and SWCC pipelines have made it past BUD/S Orientation yet.

SEAL and SWCC: BUD/S Prep in Illinois (Only Enlisted)

SEAL and SWCC: BUD/S Orientation in Coronado (SEAL Officer Candidates Start with us here)

SEAL: BUD/S 1st Phase — SWCC: Basic Crewman Selection (BCS)

SEAL: BUD/S 2nd Phase — SWCC: Basic Crewman Training (BCT)

SEAL: BUD/S 3rd Phase — SWCC: Crewman Qualification Training (CQT)

SEAL: SEAL Qualifications Training (SQT)

 

[BloodStripe]

First female graduate of BRC. First female Marine earns recon military occupational specialty

Good for her if everything was equal.

 

[digrar]

Saw this on the Canadian Army News site and thought I'd share to add to the discussion; perhaps one of the upsidedowners could add more.

Five male two female new clearance divers graduate - CONTACT magazine

We've had women in 1RAR for a couple of years now, with one being promoted to Lance Corporal and a couple of others getting some Support Company trades up and potentially a posting into a platoon this year.
Now, a couple of new female Clearance Divers.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

- multiple threads on the topic merged -

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Huh. Well done.

First Woman Set to Pass Special Forces Training and Join Green Berets

The woman, an enlisted soldier, is in the final stage of training before graduating from the roughly yearlong qualification course, or Q Course, as a Special Forces engineer sergeant. Her graduation is almost guaranteed, officials said, although occasionally soldiers have failed the course this late in the training or withdrawn because of injuries.

 

[Devildoc]

Huh. Well done.

First Woman Set to Pass Special Forces Training and Join Green Berets

The woman, an enlisted soldier, is in the final stage of training before graduating from the roughly yearlong qualification course, or Q Course, as a Special Forces engineer sergeant. Her graduation is almost guaranteed, officials said, although occasionally soldiers have failed the course this late in the training or withdrawn because of injuries.

This is getting pretty big press around these parts (we're about 90 minutes from Bragg). A lot of the press is back-slapping, but things are quiet from people in-the-know.

 

[AWP]

I'll wait to hear from our vetted SF members before I break out the champagne...

 

[Devildoc]

I'll wait to hear from our vetted SF members before I break out the champagne...

That's kind of what I was alluding to...the silence from the non-press people on Bragg is deafening.

 

[Bypass]

Huh. Well done.

First Woman Set to Pass Special Forces Training and Join Green Berets

The woman, an enlisted soldier, is in the final stage of training before graduating from the roughly yearlong qualification course, or Q Course, as a Special Forces engineer sergeant. Her graduation is almost guaranteed, officials said, although occasionally soldiers have failed the course this late in the training or withdrawn because of injuries.

You think she will still qualify for that year long maternity leave?

 

[Ooh-Rah]

You think she will still qualify for that year long maternity leave?

That was Marine Corps, she is Army.

In regards to the maternity leave "joke", whether she made it 'to standard' or got a little help from Cadre, the woman has accomplished more in her military career than I ever did on my best day. She'll get no disrespect from me.

 

[Cookie_]

We had a guy a while back who got injured in SFAS and told us he had gone through with a female who got selected. He said she was a tank that kept up with everybody else. I wonder if this is the same one or not; I'll have to ask next time I see him at drill.

I'm with @Ooh-Rah; props to her WHEN she actually finishes. Lord knows even a "relaxed" standard at the Q is still probably no joke.

 

[Brill]

Sideline personal biases about women in active combat and whose P is in whose V for a minute and focus on UW.

For a Regiment so focused on foreign cultures, this decision is difficult to understand. There are EXTREMELY few cultures outside of “The West” where females have a voice in decision making let along get heard. Which Army or guerrilla force in the ME, Africa, or Asia is led or advised by by a female? Sure there are isolates (e.g. YPG) but isn’t THAT why CSTs are a flexible option for the ODA commander? A bunch of dudes productively sitting around talking to old hajjis about X would suddenly start popping viagra and wishing they could put P in V upon the sight of a western female because, in the majority of cultures where We need SF to operate, women are viewed as a commodity/property.

Why on earth set the entire ODA up for failure by putting a female on a team? This would be like the command mandating every ODA take a SCAR on every CONOP because taxpayers bought them.

It seems the Army is trying to impose its own culture (not laws of armed warfare) upon the oppressed.

 

[Kaldak]

I'm not SF, but wouldn't having a female around all the time who is as well trained as the rest of the team be a positive? Guys talk to the elders, she talks to the women. She doesn't need as much watching/guarding as a CST.

Personally, if she can hack it, I have no problem with it. She also brings a different perspective.

 

[Brill]

I'm not SF, but wouldn't having a female around all the time who is as well trained as the rest of the team be a positive? Guys talk to the elders, she talks to the women. She doesn't need as much watching/guarding as a CST.

Personally, if she can hack it, I have no problem with it. She also brings a different perspective.

Add a CST and the team keeps a SF guy doing SF stuff. Have those fucking SOT-As act as their PSD. Those shitheads are always standing around listen to crazy shit on their “radios” anyway.

 

[DZ]

I'm with @Ooh-Rah; props to her WHEN she actually finishes. Lord knows even a "relaxed" standard at the Q is still probably no joke.

Not coming at you, but I hear this sentiment a lot about the "optimized" Q course. I graduated in one of the last "Legacy" Q course classes before the changes. I remember being pissed when I first heard they were shortening the course cause if someone hasn't gone through what I had, then some how I'm better than them. That's just a "last hard class" mentality I think.

I always thought the course was too long, so I'm glad it's shorter (although I was hoping they would shorten language instead). For anyone that doesn't know, students will now spend 11 weeks straight out at camp Mackall as opposed to the old 6 week SUT I went through. And everyone likes to forget about the 6 month Q course Vietnam era SF guys went through. Is anyone saying they had an "easier" course?

In my experience it's not the course itself that makes it hard. It is the instructors and the grading criteria they hold you to. I think there was some legitimate concerns about the standards the students were going to be held to when Sonntag was at the helm, but with him gone I am not as worried. We will see the quality of the new course layout when the graduates start getting to Group in the coming months.

I think when you hear guys talk shit on the new Course, they are probably talking out their ass, and suffering from a last hard class mentality. Honestly, this new layout could be harder than the old one. Again it all depends on what cadre are able to do and the standards they are able to impose.

As far as females in SF go, I won't comment publicly. I'm sure most of you can surmise my thoughts.. this particular female though, I heard from her NG unit who put her into the pipeline that she is an absolute beast, and a prior professional athlete.

 

[Brill]

this particular female though, I heard from her NG unit who put her into the pipeline that she is an absolute beast, and a prior professional athlete.

I bet 12-24 months she assess for CAG, assuming she gets a CIB, which is now doubtful.

 

[Kaldak]

I bet 12-24 months she assess for CAG, assuming she gets a CIB, which is now doubtful.

Just so the military can say tier 1 has females, or because she is that much of a beast?

 

[Deleted member 2517]

I bet 12-24 months she assess for CAG, assuming she gets a CIB, which is now doubtful.

1. Probably not. Those timelines don’t add up.
2. SF is getting a lot of boogaloo, pretty much only ones other than us consistently doing so these days. So I wouldn’t be shocked if she’s wearing one soon.

Just so the military can say tier 1 has females, or because she is that much of a beast?

3. They’re already there. And have been since before I was born.