Women in Combat Arms/ SOF Discussion

DZ said:
Not coming at you, but I hear this sentiment a lot about the "optimized" Q course. I graduated in one of the last "Legacy" Q course classes before the changes. I remember being pissed when I first heard they were shortening the course cause if someone hasn't gone through what I had, then some how I'm better than them. That's just a "last hard class" mentality I think.

I always thought the course was too long, so I'm glad it's shorter (although I was hoping they would shorten language instead). For anyone that doesn't know, students will now spend 11 weeks straight out at camp Mackall as opposed to the old 6 week SUT I went through. And everyone likes to forget about the 6 month Q course Vietnam era SF guys went through. Is anyone saying they had an "easier" course?

In my experience it's not the course itself that makes it hard. It is the instructors and the grading criteria they hold you to. I think there was some legitimate concerns about the standards the students were going to be held to when Sonntag was at the helm, but with him gone I am not as worried. We will see the quality of the new course layout when the graduates start getting to Group in the coming months.

I think when you hear guys talk shit on the new Course, they are probably talking out their ass, and suffering from a last hard class mentality. Honestly, this new layout could be harder than the old one. Again it all depends on what cadre are able to do and the standards they are able to impose.

As far as females in SF go, I won't comment publicly. I'm sure most of you can surmise my thoughts.. this particular female though, I heard from her NG unit who put her into the pipeline that she is an absolute beast, and a prior professional athlete.
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To clarify; That's not my sentiment about the course being relaxed. I don't have anything other than secondhand knowledge from people such as yourself who have been there/done that, so i can't make that judgement.

I make the comment purely because I know there are people who have this idea that clearly it must be "easier" if a female did it.

In my mind, anyone who can make it through the pipeline is harder than most, whether it was the short course in Vietnam, the legacy course, or the new optimized one.
 
Ooh-Rah said:
That was Marine Corps, she is Army.

In regards to the maternity leave "joke", whether she made it 'to standard' or got a little help from Cadre, the woman has accomplished more in her military career than I ever did on my best day. She'll get no disrespect from me.
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I agree she is worthy of respect for her accomplishment but I still have questions that'll never be answered.
 
DZ said:
I always thought the course was too long, so I'm glad it's shorter (although I was hoping they would shorten language instead). For anyone that doesn't know, students will now spend 11 weeks straight out at camp Mackall as opposed to the old 6 week SUT I went through. And everyone likes to forget about the 6 month Q course Vietnam era SF guys went through. Is anyone saying they had an "easier" course?
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We might still have a few paper tabbers out there. Probably not a shorter course than that.
 
Ooh-Rah said:
Readers digest what a paper tab is?
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A correspondence course with minimal contact at Training Battalion, some only showed up for Robin Sage, some didn't even do Robin Sage, they got credit for a field problem with their assigned unit... usually USAR or NG. A cheap way to fill officer and R/NG slots. Highly ineffective.
 
x SF med said:
A correspondence course with minimal contact at Training Battalion, some only showed up for Robin Sage, some didn't even do Robin Sage, they got credit for a field problem with their assigned unit... usually USAR or NG. A cheap way to fill officer and R/NG slots. Highly ineffective.
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For awhile it was almost the only way NG soldiers could get a tab. By the time I was in SPT CO, early 90's, the team guys were saying all of the trash who had paper tabs were gone and the guys who could contribute stayed. All of the Guard paper tabs I knew were Vietnam vets, so they brought something to the table.

As an outsider to both paper or schoolhouse, I can't blame a guy for a paper tab if that was his only choice. Paper tabs take a lot of shit, but I get it if that was their only way to an ODA.
 
lindy said:
Was there the Team vs Support mentality back then too even though everyone wore same berets? When & why did that change?
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Same berets? We wore maroon, I don't knkow when the "candy stripe" went away, but support guys wearing green was before my time. There was definitely a Team vs. Support mentality or friction. I got along with the 18E's, but not some of the other 18 series. I think a lot of that came down to we worked with the Echos and several of them came from the "old" model where an E fresh from the Q would spend 6 months in the Base Station before moving to a team. We had both a personal and professional familiarity and like anywhere if you know your job and have a work ethic, people will notice.

A Co.'s SCUBA ODA though...they didn't like me. My mouth landed me in some shit at JRTC...
 
Scrolled back a couple of pages and did not see anything about Rosie Wild, . Although women have passed All-Arms Commando Course (Many have failed), CPT Rosie Wild, Royal Artillery, is the only woman to ever pass All Arms Pre Parachute Selection or P COY: 'Trailblazer' woman is first to pass Para course

She's a stud. Won the sword of honor at RMA Sandhurst, the award given to the intake honor graduate, in 2017. Raced Ironman Talin under 10 hours...

Here's an interview with her, she's also a member of the British Army Triathlon team: ‎The Triathlon Brick Session: Against all the odds (Capt Rosie Wild RA) on Apple Podcasts
 
lindy said:
I definitely don’t miss that. Rangers seem to have figured out a way to destroy that “line vs support” but are still able to identify friction points. As an outsider, it seems RFS is an asset to the org.
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It's not RFS. It's that everyone goes through RASP. RFS? Yeah, being able to snap kick shitbags is a fantastic thing, but the bonds built by everyone having the same standards, being in the suck together for woods time, everyone helping push the rigs for Banner Day, there's plenty of stuff that ends up making "us" band together. Some people, yeah, they have problems for whatever reason with softskills, but when it boils down to it, everyone's got their part of the puzzle to make shit happen, and if you wear a Scroll there's a guarantee that there's a minimum standard of what the fuck they're good for, nevermind their MOS.

That's the difference. I'd take a squad of "insert random MOS other than 11B here" from HHC 3/75 in a heartbeat over a company size element of Cavalry. I'd get more shit done, eat better, and my leave paperwork would be approved when we strolled in looking Tacti-Gucci Crye bukakke post-mission.
 
The graduation at the end of the month definitely will not be typical. Because of this historic milestone, graduation will be held in a closed hangar to conceal her identity. A Special Forces Engineer Sergeant (18C) with the 3rd Battalion, 20th Special Forces Group, the female soldier has big hopes of going active duty. However, her warm welcome may not be as welcome as she may like.
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Why add that?

Exclusive: Woman makes history by becoming the first to graduate Special Forces training | SOFREP
 

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