2016 Presidential Race

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I think Trump is a shrewd man who can recognize a demand and market a product (himself) to appeal to that consumer base. And I think he's smart enough and experienced enough as a chief executive to easily make the transition into the Presidency. Before the lack of experience card is played, take a good look at some of our past Presidents including the incumbent. The staff, the advisors and experts and cabinet you pick is the key.

Hell, even I could President. :-)
 
Alright, that was the first thing that resembled something I could respect about Trump.

I like the fiscal responsibility angle, but are his glaring inadequacies in other areas going to outweigh his seeming financial prowess? Is he a guy that can be a war time president with conflicts looming from some near-peer competitors?

I personally bristle to the "they're going to run the country into the ground" rhetoric, just mainly because the amount of unilateral power the President holds isn't actually that great, so I am not worried about him passing laws about prosecuting journalists for speaking badly about him or any other wacky views he has. I mean, I worry that he has them and voices them in public because I find some of them moronic, but the truth is that he won't be able to just decide it to be so.

I do worry, though, about some of those decisions that he can make. Military action, national crises, etc. How's he going to do there? As a matter of fact, how would Hillary do there? And how would you argue for one over the other?

I think Trump is a shrewd man who can recognize a demand and market a product (himself) to appeal to that consumer base. And I think he's smart enough and experienced enough as a chief executive to easily make the transition into the Presidency. Before the lack of experience card is played, take a good look at some of our past Presidents including the incumbent. The staff, the advisors and experts and cabinet you pick is the key.

Hell, even I could President. :-)
And so could Hillary, by that logic. That actually takes care of some of her biggest issues right? Plenty of oversight, no unilateral calls. It actually plays better for Hillary than Trump. Familiar faces and processes- she'd be right back to the same battle rhythm while Trump has to figure out where the bathrooms are.
 
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Experience in international politics. I understand your rhetoric here, and the way you classify her failures. I wouldn't even say I disagree with some of your points. I suppose it's fine to bash Clinton, but I noticed the only thing you said about Trump is that he would listen to those that advise him.

Can you point/link to an international business decision that was as momentous for Donald Trump (for good or for bad) as Benghazi was for Clinton? Business is business- make the wrong call, file for bankruptcy, no one dies, you get to start over. Not so in politics, and that's apparent with Clinton's missteps and failures. As it stands though, Trump hasn't made a single call, because he's never played the game. And I know the "butbutbutbutbut Hillary is a criminal/witch/actually al Sadr in drag" routine. I get it.

Even if Hillary made 1 call that was right as SecState (and there were probably more than one that she made correctly, regardless of your personal feelings), then she is 100% more experienced than Trump. Even the calls she made that were wrong (and there are a ton) make her more experienced than Trump. You want me to believe that some amateur politician is supposed to figure out how to run America as he goes? Because he was a successful (debatable) businessman?

It's apparent that you too are personally vested in speaking out against Clinton, and that's all good. Again, I am not for/against any single candidate. Don't know who I am voting for, trying to figure it out.
Rhetoric? Not likely. My statement was neither rhetoric nor party dogma. This goes beyond bashing Clinton. However, the major difference between the two in the foreign arena is that Clinton was in a position an failed miserably. Trump has yet to fail internationally even if he has not been in the position. She was in no way effective except to herself. We know she cannot do the job for which she was entrusted, why are we going to entrust her with MORE responsibility.

The fact that you bring up "butbutbutbutbut Hillary is a criminal/witch/actually al Sadr in drag" routine. I get it." is sad to me. You would likely not accept similar actions and failures from a subordinate soldier,sailor,airmen, or marine under your command. Why you would excuse those from her, and that is what you are doing by shunting it aside, is baffling to me. I realize that the conservative movement has attempted witch hunt after witch hunt against the Democratic party, however, even a broken clock is right twice a day. In Clinton's case, the Republican hounds have found their pound of flesh and are going to rightly extract it. I Would expect the same treatment if the roles were reversed.

I will not deny, or apologize, for being a Trump supporter. However, I am personally invested in changing the stagnant system our government has evolved into. I cannot stand either party in its current form. As I said a while ago, Trump will either unite the country behind him, or against him. In either event, major change is coming to our political system. I would rather see Trump get in there and make SOME change (positive or negative), than see the same road of stagnation that we are on. One last thing, if Trump was not a successful businessman, how exactly did he grow a "small" loan of a million dollars, into billions of dollars? Even with the few bankruptcies his companies have had, in the long run, he appears to have come out ahead of where he started.
 
@amlove21, inexperience is irrelevant honestly because the staff really sets the agenda because they have the pulse on what's politically feasible and how action X will be reacted too.

Clinton, Bush, and Obama all had ZERO experience and we did ok.
 
lol! Double points for the Pres Obama shade AND a Trump endorsement.

Well, if you're going to bring up lack of experience when pointing to a current nominee, bringing up the current presidents previous lack of experience is valid. Obama was only more qualified than Trump in that he was a "politician", as if holding the title ensures you're ready and able to run the country.

And that wasn't an endorsement. I'm voting Johnson, because Trump is a douchebag, and Johnson is a better choice. But 'lack of experience' isn't the point I'd raise about Trump...
 
I'm voting Johnson, because Trump is a douchebag, and Johnson is a better choice.

Hate because this is a wasted vote. You might like Gary Johnson, but he is not going to win. In fact he is not evening going to be noticed. Everyone go ahead and lecture me about no vote being a wasted vote and I will say that is naive thinking.

People who do this are the ones who voted for Ross Perot and put Clinton in the White House.

Voting to make a point is virtually guaranteeing Hilary the election.
 
I do worry, though, about some of those decisions that he can make. Military action, national crises, etc. How's he going to do there? As a matter of fact, how would Hillary do there? And how would you argue for one over the other?

My belief is that Hillary will continue the same path she did as FLOTUS, Senator and SecState. She'll surround herself with people that think the same as her. Then when a decision has to be made, she'll ask them what they think, follow their advice (which is her own opinion being parroted) and then when it goes wrong, crucify them publically. She's been doing that her whole career, I don't see it changing.

Trump will continue to do things the way they are done in business. He'll surround himself with diverse opinions, including those that he disagrees with. When a decision has to be made he'll ask them what they think and why they think that way. (I know it's TV, but watch the end of a couple of episodes before the final commercial, that's exactly how it happens in boardrooms...and the oval office). He'll weigh the opinions, ask followup questions and then make the decision. If it goes wrong, expect him to take ownership of the fault, just like you or I would.

Clinton is part of the social justice movement that says that everyone is responsible for everyone else. Trump says people need to take responsiblity for themselves first and everyone else after. Personally I agree with the second viewpoint. Personal accountability is something that our society as a whole has lost. We need it back.
 
Well, if you're going to bring up lack of experience when pointing to a current nominee, bringing up the current presidents previous lack of experience is valid. Obama was only more qualified than Trump in that he was a "politician", as if holding the title ensures you're ready and able to run the country.
No disagreement here, actually. It was a critique with Pres Obama, and it's valid here too. @lindy , same for your comment. I agree more than I don't, but it's still a point.

The fact that you bring up "butbutbutbutbut Hillary is a criminal/witch/actually al Sadr in drag" routine. I get it." is sad to me. You would likely not accept similar actions and failures from a subordinate soldier,sailor,airmen, or marine under your command. Why you would excuse those from her, and that is what you are doing by shunting it aside, is baffling to me. I realize that the conservative movement has attempted witch hunt after witch hunt against the Democratic party, however, even a broken clock is right twice a day. In Clinton's case, the Republican hounds have found their pound of flesh and are going to rightly extract it. I Would expect the same treatment if the roles were reversed.

One last thing, if Trump was not a successful businessman, how exactly did he grow a "small" loan of a million dollars, into billions of dollars? Even with the few bankruptcies his companies have had, in the long run, he appears to have come out ahead of where he started.

I bring it up because it's tired. I am tired of hearing it from both sides- "Trump is a racist! Hillary is a witch and a criminal! Sanders is a communist! Cruz is the zodiac killer!" I'd like to have a conversation about politics that has to do with the best move for the country as opposed to who we hate because of an (R) or a (D) behind their name, honestly.

Really trying to not be snarky here- but I am in charge (not command) of 20 operators and 150-180 students at any given time. And considering the only information I have ever gotten about Hillary Clinton is through a news source and not personal experience, I can't really say what I would or wouldn't do if my students did what she did/didn't/may have done. I am not excusing her from anything- if/when she is charged and convicted of a crime (and not just your personal opinion) then yeah, throw the book at her. Until then, innocent until proven guilty. It's not a party thing- it's due process thing.

So let's say that Trump was the world's MOST successful businessman (he's not). How does that help him compare to Hillary in the terms of this election? He has more now than he did when his upper class multimillionaire father gifted him more money than I will make in my lifetime. He's done averagely, but not as well as if he retired 30 years ago and just invested his money. What about those facts would make him a better presidential candidate, other than the fiscal responsibility and budget management aspect @compforce adroitly put out there?
 
Hate because this is a wasted vote. You might like Gary Johnson, but he is not going to win. In fact he is not evening going to be noticed. Everyone go ahead and lecture me about no vote being a wasted vote and I will say that is naive thinking.

People who do this are the ones who voted for Ross Perot and put Clinton in the White House.

Voting to make a point is virtually guaranteeing Hilary the election.

It's thinking like that which guarantees the continuation of the 2 party bullshit we have now. It's short sighted. Of course Johnson won't win this time, but he damn well for sure won't win next time if we keep scare mongering everyone into thinking there are only two choices. If everyone voted for who they actually think is better, not this 'lesser of two evils' crap, then we could see change.
 
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I bring it up because it's tired. I am tired of hearing it from both sides- "Trump is a racist! Hillary is a witch and a criminal! Sanders is a communist! Cruz is the zodiac killer!" I'd like to have a conversation about politics that has to do with the best move for the country as opposed to who we hate because of an (R) or a (D) behind their name, honestly.

Really trying to not be snarky here- but I am in charge (not command) of 20 operators and 150-180 students at any given time. And considering the only information I have ever gotten about Hillary Clinton is through a news source and not personal experience, I can't really say what I would or wouldn't do if my students did what she did/didn't/may have done. I am not excusing her from anything- if/when she is charged and convicted of a crime (and not just your personal opinion) then yeah, throw the book at her. Until then, innocent until proven guilty. It's not a party thing- it's due process thing.

So let's say that Trump was the world's MOST successful businessman (he's not). How does that help him compare to Hillary in the terms of this election? He has more now than he did when his upper class multimillionaire father gifted him more money than I will make in my lifetime. He's done averagely, but not as well as if he retired 30 years ago and just invested his money. What about those facts would make him a better presidential candidate, other than the fiscal responsibility and budget management aspect @compforce adroitly put out there?
I could agree with your first statement if the facts known at present did not indicate that Hillary has committed crimes. My personal belief is that she is a witch, the fact remains that she is also a criminal. I am not required to abide by due process, though I do try to follow that as a guideline in my personal life. However, given her social and political status, it is unlikely that she will be brought before a court of law to answer for the charges one way or the other. Which makes the entire criminal justice system a joke when those of sufficient status are implicated.

I understand you are not trying to be snarky and appreciate it. Returning the favor...Not knowing you personally, or what you do, I can safely infer from previous postings and your profile that you are an NCO, quite likely a senior NCO, and would have commanded or been in charge of troops at some point. Quite possibly an officer, but I have never read you referred to as such. As a result, it is safe to conclude that as someone in charge or command of troops, that you can look at a situation and dissect a situation, with the given facts at hand, and formulate a personal opinion one way or the other. That is not to say that new data could not change that opinion. In any event, I was not asking for an official indictment of Hillary from you personally. Just as in your training scenarios (another inference), I know you are capable of taking available information and forming a picture with it. That picture would be that if those you are in charge of behaved in the same way that Hillary did, you would likely (hopefully), not stand for it or excuse it unless there were mitigating circumstances. In essence, we are here discussing a political situation as citizens, and not as professional whatever we do. Obviously in our professional rolls we must adhere to a different standard, that of course being due process.

I never said he was the most successful businessman. However, his obvious success allows him a degree of expertise in the field of the economy. Which is the foundation of any civilization throughout time. I am sure he has his opinions of foreign policy, and other areas he has no experience in. I am also sure that he will at least hear out his advisers as @compforce noted he is likely to do. Most importantly, as I have said previously, Trump stands the best chance of breaking the stalemate that has developed over the last two decades of two-party wrestling. I understand many people want to see easy and peaceful change when a system is broken. However, that is highly unlikely and rare in the best of times. These are not, I think we can agree, the best of times. I want to see him in office to either fix the system (which will cause much butthurt), or wreck it to the ground. We cannot afford the same status quo we have had over the last several decades.

ETA: I think this is the preferred method of changing what we have versus a bloody civil war. Which is something I think most of us here would not want to see. I know I know, that escalated quickly, but I am thinking long term here.
 

They skipped some key facts in that article. First, if you are in that class of investor, you don't play the stock market with the vast majority of your money. You invest the majority in longer term zero coupon bonds.(SEC.gov | Zero Coupon Bonds) Second, no mention of capital gains tax which would have eaten about half the profits over that period, especially since obamacare took effect (it jumped from 15% to 43% with the ACA). Third, they went for pure stock funds, which have a higher rate of return than the various mixed varieties. Finally, the author is including the past 6 years, during which the S&P has tripled due to QE and the Obama free money policies. If you went back to 2006 right before all the madness started, he'd have been wealthier at that point than he would have been playing the fund game. The article is just intellectually dishonest.
 
I understand you are not trying to be snarky and appreciate it. Returning the favor...Not knowing you personally, or what you do, I...Obviously in our professional rolls we must adhere to a different standard, that of course being due process.
I'm an NCO, currently at our 'finishing school' here in Albuquerque. Good call on the guess. One quick rant- I have seen things here that you would not believe. Stories that you would hear that sound made up. Guys showing up to an alcohol abuse program evaluation drunk- and our hands were tied because of a technicality and we couldn't remove him from training. That's the most tame one I can think of at the moment. My point is this- it's not what you know, it's what you can prove. Clinton, I believe, has done wrong. I am not an expert (or even smart) on some of the claims of wrongdoing, and I won't pretend to be but I am of the opinion that she probably broke the law. My feelings about objective right/wrong and our judicial system an all that other stuff aside- she hasn't been charged. Is the reason that there is a sect of people in this country are so well protected that naked lawlessness goes unpunished even when its obvious to an entire country that laws were broken? I mean, maybe- but it's more likely that after a review, a federal agency decided that there wasn't enough evidence to prosecute her. At least to me.

That being said, if new data gets presented and she's guilty? Bury her under the prison. I am all for it. And your thought experiment wasn't lost on me at all- I was fully vested, which is why I started this post the way I did. No, I would not accept that type of behavior from my instructors or students here. However, because I have really been exposed to just how multifaceted and complex even my very-easy problem set is here, I can not imagine what sort of layers must be applied when talking about international secrets violation and global impact. Short answer, of course I understand what you meant and I think it's valid.

As to the rest, @compforce 100% correct- the article posted wasn't the best shot at a good article. I own that one.

I partially agree with your comments about Trump shedding light on an outdated and corrupt political system that's entropic and self serving by nature; but wrecking it to the ground or being the catalyst through failure I can't get on board with. I know this probably wasn't your intent, but I don't want the country to suffer for the sake of an unsure promise later. Thinking about it, that's probably my issue here- we are at a point where collectively we are going, "Screw it. This thing is so far gone we just need to pick one and burn it to the ground."

I know it's repetitive to say "Both candidates suck!" in presidential elections- but this is the first election in my life where I really don't think either candidate should be president.
 
This guy has no chance but perhaps he provides an option to vote my conscience at some level (perhaps just on general policy ideas) without being a slave to the two buffoon parties: Platform – Chris Keniston 2016

I also agree with the comments about Gary Johnson. Not a fan. Actually, none of the Libertarian Party candidates are likeable.
 
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This guy has no chance but perhaps he provides an option to vote my conscience at some level without being a slave to the two buffoon parties: Platform – Chris Keniston 2016

I also agree with the comments about Gary Johnson. Not a fan. Actually, none of the Libertarian Party candidates are likeable.
Know what pisses me off? Being a libertarian is the most attractive option for me. Max freedom, beholden to our core docs, minimum government involvement, everyone do your own thing and don't infringe on others doing theirs, etc etc.

BUT IT'S TOTALLY NOT LIKE THAT AT ALL and they always put the biggest assholes out in front of their cause.
 
all of it
A completely respectable line of logic and reasoning. In all honesty I can completely believe the things you've seen. Along the same lines I have seen similar moments of WTF concerning cops and public officials where I worked. You are correct in that it is what you can prove in court.

I think the scorched earth idea is a selling point for me because it allows, to me, the most efficient and quickest path that does not involve bloodshed. I can understand your feelings on the topic. I think it is because of that scorched earth potential that I am very much on board the Trump train. If he can effect the change he promises, that would be fantastic. If he cannot, then the sooner we can get to healing. Thanks for the enlightening and stimulating discussion. Stay on the bounce.
 
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