A Discussion About Guns and Gun Laws

Almost every weapon I've taken off the street was stolen or NPR If anything, tighter safeguards for those who do own. And if the courts/states/parole boards would ensure sentences were carried out to the maximum when guns were involved instead of the fricking revolving door syndrome, it may very well send a serious message. The one being sent right now (At least here) is a joke.

There are no "Good Guns" there are no "Bad Guns"
Any gun in the hands of a bad man is a bad thing,
Any gun in the hands of a decent law abiding citizen is no threat to anyone
except bad people.
 
o2bird said:
I just picked up an XDS on Saturday at a gun show here in Phoenix. Told him ill take it, filled out a one page form, handed him my License and CCW permit. He wrote down my info, handed me a receipt and my case. Whole process took less than five minutes. Then i walked out to the parking lot and got stopped by a guy trying to sell me a 1911 with the serial numbers dremeled off. Arizona makes it real easy to get a gun legally, but it is still easier to get one illegally. Which IMO is the way it will be no matter what restrictions go into effect.
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In all the gun shows I've attended all over the Northeast, Southeast and everywhere from Florida to Nevada, I have never once been approached by anyone asking me if I wanted to buy a weapon with the serial numbers dremeled off.

And some of those trips, I looked pretty scuzzy / non-copp-ish... so it's not like they wouldn't have approached me for looking like a cop or something.

Now, I can say that I have been approached numerous times by people who wanted to BUY a firearm from me (one that I had listed online) while going about it in the wrong / illegal way. That is to say, the few times I've had this happen it involved people who didn't have the right paperwork/permit to buy a handgun from me, and after pointing out that selling to them in such a manner was not an option, they usually disappear from the face of the earth.
 
SpitfireV said:
Thanks for the stuff on the pre-Aramoana systems, it's a bit before my time. I would agree that the hand one in/get on system is retarded but I don't agree with lifetime licences but for the same reason as I outlined before re cars and aircraft. In a lifetime there's a good chance you might lose your marbles and then you really shouldn't have access to firearms IMO. I would also argue that the thing with your book wasn't a result of the system itself but rather the firearms officer using the licencing system to another end. I remember you telling me about that book and it would *strictly* be an illegal import (probably where they picked it up or someone's reported it who hated you. That would be a small list? :D ). The semi thing isn't quite right, it's correct for E Cat rifles but not A Cat semis. I know, it's retarded. The system needs fine tuning.



I think this is an important post, with any legal right you need to look deeper into the spirit of the law and the intentions of the writers.
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If the book was illegal, A, how did they know, and B, why did it get through the post if it was illegal? The system is a mildly totalitarian one that is not used to its limit and therefore not noticed by the average person.
You're also too young to remember that NZ used to be a country with more freedoms. Used to be a country where common sense was the law of the land.
If someone looses their marbles there could easily be ways to address that. The system now is more about taking weapons away from citizens.

The NRA sent representatives to NZ when the assholes were screaming and pushing the license changes to try and help.
Yes I realize that about the E vs A cat, thats what I meant without writing it out.

The system is fucked. You would be more pissed off about it if you'd had your freedoms taken away from you. Have a look at the amount of gun violence now compared to the old days when we carried rifles through the streets.
 
SpitfireV said:
God given, or Man given? :p I joke, I'm just being facetious and don't want to open that particular can of worms!
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God-given, nature-given, however you look at it. I believe every creature from spider to man has the right to defend itself to the best of its abilities to ensure the survival of itself and its progeny. I do not believe that our rights (any of them) are generated by a man or a document.
 
JBS said:
In all the gun shows I've attended all over the Northeast, Southeast and everywhere from Florida to Nevada, I have never once been approached by anyone asking me if I wanted to buy a weapon with the serial numbers dremeled off.

And some of those trips, I looked pretty scuzzy / non-copp-ish... so it's not like they wouldn't have approached me for looking like a cop or something.
Click to expand...

I know exactly what you mean. I wish someone would offer me a dremeled gun; I can use the overtime.
 
The Founding Fathers knew what they were doing. Students of history, they were well informed of technological progress so while I doubt they were specifically thinking about a "Shoulder-fired, gas-operated, self-loading yadda, yadda, yadda" then were acutely aware of firearms, their evolution against the backdrop of other weapons and the fact that the catalyst for armed revolt began over the confiscation of firearms. It isn't second in line because it won a lottery.

"Alright Hamilton, you can draw for "Search and seizure."
"Annnnndddd, Number Four! That's the Fourth Amendment."
"Poppycock! It should be at least Number 6!"
"Rabble, rabble, rabble"

While I personally disagree with the "cooling off period" I'm willing to keep it on the books. I'm not against gun control, but it seems like every measure that is mentioned is something I would fight: ban on AR/ AK style weapons, high-cap magazines, a National registration, etc. and they also happen to be measures which would not work.
 
JBS said:
In all the gun shows I've attended all over the Northeast, Southeast and everywhere from Florida to Nevada, I have never once been approached by anyone asking me if I wanted to buy a weapon with the serial numbers dremeled off.

And some of those trips, I looked pretty scuzzy / non-copp-ish... so it's not like they wouldn't have approached me for looking like a cop or something.
Click to expand...
Yea, i hadn't either until then. He acted like he had no clue when i called him on it. Said he thought it was just scratched up. Not a very bright individual seeing as i was wearing a fire dept. t-shirt at the time. And he was out of the parking lot before i got to my truck. Would have been even better cause i was at the show with my buddy who is PD but he had parked on the other side of the lot.
 
o2bird said:
Yea, i hadn't either until then. He acted like he had no clue when i called him on it. Said he thought it was just scratched up. Not a very bright individual seeing as i was wearing a fire dept. t-shirt at the time. And he was out of the parking lot before i got to my truck. Would have been even better cause i was at the show with my buddy who is PD but he had parked on the other side of the lot.
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That is bizarre, that a guy would do that. He must have been high or out of his mind. That's like someone walking up to you and just randomly asking if you want to buy cocaine. People that dumb will get caught sooner or later.
 
pardus said:
Have a look at the amount of gun violence now compared to the old days when we carried rifles through the streets.
Click to expand...
New York City high schools used to have rifle teams.

They'd walk around in the basement of the high schools and clean them and store them and were instructed by war veterans on how to respect the rifles and respect each other. Nobody ever flipped out and started shooting up the schools; nobody broke into the cabinets and started killing teachers.

It's mind blowing to think that this country has changed that much in so little time. Imagine trying to convince Bloomberg to let all the high schools create rifle teams and let students sling them on their way to class. In New York City of all places? The very idea is so utterly beyond impossible in today's world.

I know the example of New York schools having guns at one time speaks to a different issue, but it is interesting to see how culture has changed.
 
I remember when I was in HS( back in the dark ages in the back woods village where I grew up) kids would have their deer rifles, in gun racks in their Dad's pick up truck in the school parking lot. No one got shot..not one time. :rolleyes:
 
Chopstick said:
I remember when I was in HS( back in the dark ages in the back woods village where I grew up) kids would have their deer rifles, in gun racks in their Dad's pick up truck in the school parking lot. No one got shot..not one time. :rolleyes:
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Not uncommon to see that where I grew up as well. Guys would clean their shotguns in the parking lot on Monday and no one said anything and no one ever thought about using one to resolve an argument or fight.

The one or two gun-related incidents, one was a fatality the year after I graduated, were a result of "Hey, look what I found at my dad's!" The guys who grew up around weapons were never a problem.
 
pardus said:
If the book was illegal, A, how did they know, and B, why did it get through the post if it was illegal? The system is a mildly totalitarian one that is not used to its limit and therefore not noticed by the average person.
You're also too young to remember that NZ used to be a country with more freedoms. Used to be a country where common sense was the law of the land.
If someone looses their marbles there could easily be ways to address that. The system now is more about taking weapons away from citizens.

The NRA sent representatives to NZ when the assholes were screaming and pushing the license changes to try and help.
Yes I realize that about the E vs A cat, thats what I meant without writing it out.

The system is fucked. You would be more pissed off about it if you'd had your freedoms taken away from you. Have a look at the amount of gun violence now compared to the old days when we carried rifles through the streets.
Click to expand...

You've probably had someone dob you in then. From what you'd said at in the past it had sounded like it was stopped coming in- in that case it wouldn't have got to you.

Either way, this is getting off the topic of the OP.
 
Gun laws cease to exist at gun shows in AZ...in the parking lot...on the last day...when it's time to go home.
I've had a very similar experience to the one o2bird described.
 
o2bird said:
Yea, i hadn't either until then. He acted like he had no clue when i called him on it. Said he thought it was just scratched up. Not a very bright individual seeing as i was wearing a fire dept. t-shirt at the time. And he was out of the parking lot before i got to my truck. Would have been even better cause i was at the show with my buddy who is PD but he had parked on the other side of the lot.
Click to expand...
JBS said:
That is bizarre, that a guy would do that. He must have been high or out of his mind. That's like someone walking up to you and just randomly asking if you want to buy cocaine. People that dumb will get caught sooner or later.
Click to expand...


Wouldn't surprise me to learn that this was an undercover cop from NYPD.
 
pardus said:
Wouldn't surprise me to learn that this was an undercover cop from NYPD.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't that be funny. I seem to recall the poorly thought out 'gun stings' they were doing used private investigators and not police personnel. But either way, possession of a firearm with a defaced serial number is a big no-no. The PI has no excuse ever; the NYPD cop (if cop he was) is also up shit creek unless he's been seconded to the local coppers or to a task force.
 
Gun Rights (restrictions) are for people who follow the law. Do I follow the laws yes...one time no, I was packing in DC, but in general I follow the laws. I teach CCDW and some advanced courses. There is a fine line you must walk, I will not discuss further in an open forum
 

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