Abortion Repeal?

Marauder06

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Supreme Court set to overturn Roe v. Wade, leaked draft opinion shows: report

Interesting article in Politico regarding the leak of a draft decision concerning the potential overturning of Roe vs. Wade.

I don't have particularly strong views one way or the other on abortion, except that I'm not convinced that legislating its legality/illegality is within the purview of the Federal Government. The Supreme Court ruled that it is, so I have accepted that.

My interest is that this decision was leaked, presumably to pressure the Court before an official decision, and that leaks from the Supreme Court don't seem to happen much, or at all.

I'm also interested to find out of the leak is true or not. If it is overturned, then a whole bunch of past precedent is out the window, which is also rare. And it seems likely that this would lead to some very, very strong calls for court-packing.

Whether it is true or not, this could have an impact on the upcoming midterms.
 
That this document was leaked is unprecedented; my understanding is that Politico went through extreme lengths to verify that it was not a fake.

I would expect, (and hope) that the Chief Justice will leave no stone unturned in attempting to determine the source of this leak.

You expect this behavior and mistrust in Washington overall, you do not expect it from the United States Supreme Court.

This should not have happened.
 
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This story is believable, but I don't yet believe it. Given the media's willingness to print news that is completely false (Russia hoax, many others) and ignore things that are completely true (Hunter Biden's laptop, many others), I remain skeptical. This leak could have the exact desired effect by being a false story.
 
This story is believable, but I don't yet believe it. Given the media's willingness to print news that is completely false (Russia hoax, many others) and ignore things that are completely true (Hunter Biden's laptop, many others), I remain skeptical. This leak could have the exact desired effect by being a false story.
Concur. Both legit and fake seem equally viable.

If true, the fact this was leaked is a much bigger concern than the decision itself.

Either way, I personally have an issue with Politico's ethics and decision to publish the info. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. This is a huge issue with media today. To me, they lack integrity. Politico's decison to publish was clearly self serving.
 
This indicates that the justices Trump installed all lied when questioned about their stance on abortion. I thought it was “settled as a precedent,” because “it has been reaffirmed many times over the past 45 years.” 🙄
 
This story is believable, but I don't yet believe it. Given the media's willingness to print news that is completely false (Russia hoax, many others) and ignore things that are completely true (Hunter Biden's laptop, many others), I remain skeptical. This leak could have the exact desired effect by being a false story.

Apparently SCOTUS confirmed it, and word is Roberts is pissed, with a capital "P", which rhymes with "T" with stands for "trouble."
 
I think this is a good opinion piece. The emphasis is mine.

Opinion The leaked draft of the Roe opinion is a disaster for the Supreme Court

By Ruth Marcus Deputy editorial page editor

“Disaster” is not too strong a word to describe the leak of a draft Supreme Court opinion that would overrule Roe v. Wade.

A disaster, most clearly, for the court itself, whose secrecy has been breached in a way that is unprecedented. In my view, overruling Roe would be a disaster — for a court reversing itself after repeatedly reaffirming the right to abortion over half a century, and even more for American women who have come to rely on the right to abortion.

But I say “most clearly” because we cannot be certain whether that disaster will in fact ensue — if what was labeled “1st draft” of a majority opinion by Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. that was circulated Feb. 10 will remain the majority opinion of the court.

Keep in mind: Majorities, particularly in high-stakes cases such as the Mississippi abortion law at issue, can fall apart. We don’t know how Politico, which broke the story, obtained the draft. One theory — my leading theory — is that the leak came from the conservative side, possibly from a clerk for a conservative justice concerned that the seeming majority, ready to do away with the constitutional right to abortion, might be unraveling. There was a hint of this last week in a Wall Street Journal editorial warning that Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. might be trying to dissuade Justices Brett M. Kavanaugh or Amy Coney Barrett from voting to overrule Roe outright. Roberts famously changed his mind after initially voting to strike down the Affordable Care Act in 2012 and “may be trying to turn another Justice now,” the Journal warned. “We hope he doesn’t succeed — for the good of the Court and the country.”

The Journal said its “guess” was that Alito was writing the majority opinion. Is it a coincidence that the Alito draft then leaked to Politico — or is it part of the same campaign to stave off a Kavanaugh or Barrett defection?

Of course, there are other possible culprits: a liberal clerk furious over the loss of abortion rights, perhaps? That makes less sense. Not much would be gained by leaking the draft of an outcome that has been expected since December’s oral argument in the Mississippi case, which involves a ban on most abortions after 15 weeks. Does anybody really think the reaction would change the conservative justices’ minds?

Not that this stopped liberal Twitter from hailing the disclosure.

“Is a brave clerk taking this unprecedented step of leaking a draft opinion to warn the country what’s coming in a last-ditch Hail Mary attempt to see if the public response might cause the Court to reconsider?” asked Brian Fallon of Demand Justice, a progressive group that has been pushing for court expansion and other measures to rein in the conservative majority.

And not that it stopped conservative Twitter from naming a particular clerk who had been quoted in a 2017 Politico article by Josh Gerstein, one of the reporters who broke the draft story along with Alexander Ward.

Sorry, but whoever the source, leaking a draft opinion isn’t bravery — it’s betrayal. I love a leak as much as the next reporter, and kudos to Politico for its scoop, but unlike Congress and the White House, the court can’t function this way. It’s one thing for information to dribble out after the fact about switched votes, but something else entirely for a draft judicial work product to make its way into breaking-news alerts.

And as much as I fear the consequences of the current six-justice conservative supermajority, I’m not prepared to believe the institution should be destroyed, which would be the consequence of a culture of preemptive leaking.


Now to the impending disaster of the opinion itself, assuming it stands as written. On one level, we knew this was coming, certainly after the questioning in the oral argument showed the other conservative justices seemingly uninterested in following Roberts’s efforts to forge a compromise short of outright overruling. But anticipating a calamity, bracing for its impact, is different from experiencing it. Reading the draft Monday night was chilling. “Roe and Casey must be overruled, and the authority to regulate abortion must be returned to the people and their elected representatives,” the draft reads, referring to the 1992 ruling that reaffirmed the core right to abortion. It might as well have said: The authority to decide whether to continue a pregnancy must be removed from the woman who will have to bear the child and returned to a majority free to impose its moral choices on her.

The court has overruled decisions before, but it has never removed an existing, established constitutional right.
Now, we have every reason to believe it is prepared to do so, and in a way that would give states maximum leeway. If the draft becomes the law of the land, state legislatures will be free to restrict all abortion, in almost all circumstances.

The only restraint will be whether the law survives the most minimal scrutiny of all: whether it has a rational basis. This means almost nothing. The state’s “legitimate interests,” Alito wrote in the draft, “include respect for and preservation of prenatal life at all stages of development.” A law that barred abortions necessary to save the life of the mother would probably not survive rational-basis scrutiny. That’s about it.

Imagine the 13-year-old raped by her father and forced to give birth to his child. Imagine the desperate mother already unable to provide for her existing children. Imagine the loss of personal autonomy.


There is one possible sliver of a silver lining in this calamity of a ruling. Alito went out of his way to distinguish abortion from other rights, similarly unstated in the Constitution, such as access to contraception, homosexual sex and same-sex marriage. Abortion, he argued, is “a unique act” because it, unlike the others, implicates potential human life.

“We emphasize that our decision concerns the constitutional right to abortion and no other right,” Alito wrote. “Nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion.”

You can, perhaps, take some solace in this. Or you could remember that Alito dissented vigorously in the same-sex marriage ruling, arguing that “the Constitution leaves that question to be decided by the people of each State.” If that sounds alarmingly familiar, it should.
 
Interesting read. The part about it being a conservative leak doesn't make the slightest bit of sense to me. I think the other option proposed is far more likely.

We probably won't have to wonder for long, though. I suspect that whoever it was will soon be revealed, because they will want to cash in on the celebrity. Few people do something like this without wanting the world to eventually know about it.
 
The ruling can be cloaked in all of the legalese the SC wants, but this is religion masquerading as law.

I don't think so, and I'll tell you why: 10th amendment. Plus, there's precedent to defederalizing morality-based laws (drugs, alcohol, etc). The legal justification at the Supreme Court was very shaky as it was, and that was what legal scholars said 40 something years ago.
 
To answer several posts above, multi-quoting can be, I can't find the word..."unclear"? "disruptive?" Anyway...smart people will figure it out, partisan trolls will seize the moment...

I thought about the 10th Amendment and I understand. It is the "fly in the ointment" for the RvW argument. I guess, what is a State's rights issue and what is a Federal issue? The 10th is strong and I won't deny that, but we're down to a simple argument: a Basic citizen's right to choose vs. whateverthefuck an argument about a fetus entails. I'm not trivializing those, but bringing them to light. Where to do we separate a human rights issue from Federal to State? That's...fuck me, who is making that argument on this forum?

Back to my original post: cut away the 10th Amendment and what do you have, what's the argument? That's seems like a loophole. I'm prochoice, so...we're hanging on the 10th? I get it, but does anyone here on that petard want to admit this isn't about religion?

Does any member want to state this is about religion, knowing that goes against the 1st Amendment? The 10th goes back to my original post: this is religion masquerading law. Change my mind. Seriously. I want to see arguments this is isn't about religion. And all of you members thinking I can make the argument while you sit on the sidelines? Fuck you. Cowards. You morally weak pieces of trash. Stand up, don't hide behind those willing to speak up. For the ruling...Make your voices heard or fuck off. I say that for any topic, but the contentious? Don't be a moral or ethical coward.
 
I mean, I am about as pro-choice as is a thing. I honestly believe staunchly conservative people would be too, if their politics didn’t get mixed with religion.

I’m not enough of a constitutional law guy to really comment on any of the law stuff. But I’m here to argue about why abortion is good for America.
 
But I’m here to argue about why abortion is good for America.
Just that little part of your sentence I am grabbing onto.

Generalizing here a bit, but most of the people who are adamant about stopping abortion, are the same folks who are anti-welfare too. Well guess what Washington DC, you stop these poor (financially) woman from being able to get an easy and safe abortion, you better plan on opening up the coffers after all these unplanned and unwanted babies are born.
 
I am anti-abortion, but understand why people think it should be legal, and I am not against the states making laws to support it. I think that given the 10th amendment, the states should be allowed to decide it, and that it's not necessarily a constitutional issue. RBG herself said that legally it was a legal house of cards.

Let's pretend for a moment it was about religion. Precedent has been set that all of the 'morality' laws have been pushed back to the states: alcohol, drugs, even what age kids can legally screw.

But to be open, this is, like, 35th on my list of issues for which I am going to be concerned about.
 
Just that little part of your sentence I am grabbing onto.

Generalizing here a bit, but most of the people who are adamant about stopping abortion, are the same folks who are anti-welfare too. Well guess what Washington DC, you stop these poor (financially) woman from being able to get an easy and safe abortion, you better plan on opening up the coffers after all these unplanned and unwanted babies are born.

Exactly
 
Pretty sure Politico is full of shit. IF this is real... it probably has something to do with the political party in power trying to rile their base with an existential emotional crisis.

Nothing brings out the rainbow haired cat ranchers like abortion, as morally abhorrent as it is.
 
I’m pretty sure the leak is real. The court’s decision is their decision. I don’t give a tinker’s damn about the women who seek these services. It’s not my business to.

What I’m most concerned with is the absolute audacity and unmitigated gall it required for this person to actually leak the documents. Chief Justice Roberts has called on the US Marshals to investigate this, and I hope the leaker is tossed in with the January 6th prisoners. Instead, I know the guilty party — most likely a clerk but who knows — will be lauded, their praises sung to the high heavens, and cop a multimillion dollar deal with *insert news agency here* to provide some garbage opinion.
 
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