Abortion Repeal?

[Cookie_]

The idea that human life begins at conception is a religious one, full stop. Any argument that begins with that is a religious position, regardless of whether that person claims it or not.

Claiming "it's about protecting children" is a bullshit line. If we cared about protecting and providing for children, we would have:

Free pre-k through college
Nationalized Health care
Nationalized paterninty/maternity leave
Housing reform
Increased minimum wage
Free school lunch for all children
Etc etc etc.

It's never been about the children, but always been about religion.

I'd also like to point out that the argument around adoption is similarly tied to religion.
Look at the number of states that still ban second parent adoption/allow adoption agencies to refuse LGBT couples. It's almost like it's not about the kids having a home.

 

[Devildoc]

The idea that human life begins at conception is a religious one, full stop. Any argument that begins with that is a religious position, regardless of whether that person claims it or not.

Claiming "it's about protecting children" is a bullshit line. If we cared about protecting and providing for children, we would have:

Free pre-k through college
Nationalized Health care
Nationalized paterninty/maternity leave
Housing reform
Increased minimum wage
Free school lunch for all children
Etc etc etc.

It's never been about the children, but always been about religion.

I'd also like to point out that the argument around adoption is similarly tied to religion.
Look at the number of states that still ban second parent adoption/allow adoption agencies to refuse LGBT couples. It's almost like it's not about the kids having a home.

You are wrong. At least partially.

You know how abortion control started in this country? Profit control for physicians. The original policies codified by the AMA were lobbied in states to prevent everyone other than non-physicians for doing them. Then it turned from a money thing into an ethnic thing. Oh yeah, we codified laws for some ethnicities, made it easier for others. It didn't become about religion in politics until the late 60s (and really as a platform the 70s). Then for the religious right it was full-on about religion.

As far as when life begins, that will never, ever be 'settled science.' So preface the statement about "the idea that human life begins at conception..." with "I think...."

You give me 100 medical providers that say it does I can find 100 that says it doesn't. Me? I have no idea. When fetus becomes viable outside the womb? Makes sense. But I believe life starts at conception until it can be proven that it doesn't.

If it sounds like I am pissy, really, I am not. Like everyone I have friends and family on all sides of this issue, so over the years I have read about it--a lot--to educate myself to the truth, not a politician's or NPR's talking points.

Edited add, I also think the truth is messy and not so simple as 'just religion' or 'just women's rights'. I am not sure any position has the market on 'truth' or 'rightness' and is almost always approached by one's life-shaped experiences, morals, values, ethics, and cultural-religious beliefs.

 

[Gunz]

Just that little part of your sentence I am grabbing onto.

Generalizing here a bit, but most of the people who are adamant about stopping abortion, are the same folks who are anti-welfare too. Well guess what Washington DC, you stop these poor (financially) woman from being able to get an easy and safe abortion, you better plan on opening up the coffers after all these unplanned and unwanted babies are born.

Like I've said, I don't feel I have the right to have an opinion on abortion because I have a dick. But it's got to be an option. (Not an option for birth control; there're BC pills, morning-after-pills, IUDs, rubbers), but it has to be an option.

Not to stray too far, but speaking of birth control...in forty or fifty years (or maybe sooner) the world (collectively) is going to have to enforce mandatory birth control programs through tax penalties and incentives because otherwise we'll be killing each other over living space, food and potable water. Ten billion large parasitic organisms are gonna push this rock into the red zone.

 

[Devildoc]

Like I've said, I don't feel I have the right to have an opinion on abortion because I have a dick. But it's got to be an option. (Not an option for birth control; there're BC pills, morning-after-pills, IUDs, rubbers), but it has to be an option.

Not to stray too far, but speaking of birth control...in forty or fifty years (or maybe sooner) the world (collectively) is going to have to enforce mandatory birth control programs through tax penalties and incentives because otherwise we'll be killing each other over living space, food and potable water. Ten billion large parasitic organisms are gonna push this rock into the red zone.

Six kids...slowly back away...

 

[RackMaster]

I'll start by saying this is something that is no one's business but an individual and their doctors. There's plenty of legitimate and asinine arguments on both sides.

No matter where you are on this, having it leaked is where people should be outraged and I definitely believe it was funded by one side.
That one side is looking more and more in sync between our borders. It's pretty convenient timing, your elections and there's a Conservative leadership campaign on right now in Canada.
There's obvious coordination between "progressive" parties around the world.

This is now the focus in Canadian politics and conveniently takes focus away from Trudeau, avoiding fraud charges. Going back to the beginning of his time in office.

Some Canadian MPs block motion to recognize ‘freedom of choice’ on abortion - National | Globalnews.ca

Michael Taube: Trudeau may have avoided an RCMP fraud charge, but Conservatives should not let him off the hook

Abortion is also not as accessible in Canada, either. There's no actual federal law, it was just decriminalized.

Here’s the reality of abortion access in Canada

And don't worry, you can come to Canada for that...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-provide-abortion-access-american-women-1.6440238

 

[Ex3]

Interesting read. The part about it being a conservative leak doesn't make the slightest bit of sense to me. I think the other option proposed is far more likely.

I think it makes a lot of sense. For one, if the left was trying to stir the base, it would've been smarter to wait for the decision which will be closer to November. And who benefits from the leak? I think the right does.

thoughts from a former clerk of the court

"It was a leak from the right to stop Kavanaugh from defecting
According to Politico, a clean majority of four conservative justices voted with Alito, following December’s oral arguments in the Dobbs case. With the three liberal justices are working on dissenting opinions, that leaves Roberts’s position unknown — though it is believed he is trying to find something like a compromise that doesn’t totally destroy Roe. To stop Brett Kavanaugh from swinging and joining Roberts, the leak was meant to pressure him into holding his position and avoid the ire of becoming the Republican-appointed Catholic justice who upheld the right to an abortion."

Putting on my tin foil hat...it was leaked by Ginni Thomas! Is anyone talking her role in the Jan 6 shit show or her husband's refusal to recuse himself from cases related to the Jan. 6 insurrection now??

As for me, I'm probably going to have to get the new uniform custom made since it likely doesn't come in tall.
This is not only about religion but about control over women.

 

[racing_kitty]

I can’t help but laugh at the irony. Margaret Sanger was an avowed racist, and yet she’s survived cancellation. Ah, politics…..

 

[Marauder06]

I think it makes a lot of sense. For one, if the left was trying to stir the base, it would've been smarter to wait for the decision which will be closer to November. And who benefits from the leak? I think the right does.

Six months out seems about right to me. Need some time to fundraise and campaign on this. Plus it distracts from the President's very low approval rate, inflation, Hunter Biden, the border crisis, Ukraine, etc. Everyone is talking about this now, and will be for months. Look how angry people are getting in just this thread. This isn't going to go away by November.

thoughts from a former clerk of the court

"It was a leak from the right to stop Kavanaugh from defecting
According to Politico, a clean majority of four conservative justices voted with Alito, following December’s oral arguments in the Dobbs case. With the three liberal justices are working on dissenting opinions, that leaves Roberts’s position unknown — though it is believed he is trying to find something like a compromise that doesn’t totally destroy Roe. To stop Brett Kavanaugh from swinging and joining Roberts, the leak was meant to pressure him into holding his position and avoid the ire of becoming the Republican-appointed Catholic justice who upheld the right to an abortion."

I followed the link and read several of that account's posts. It reads like a lot of far-left "everything is the Conservatives' fault!" gaslighting. As for Justice Kavanaugh, how would this pressure him into holding his position? There is going to be much stronger pressure to go against the draft opinion, which IMO is the reason it was released in the first place.

Putting on my tin foil hat...it was leaked by Ginni Thomas! Is anyone talking her role in the Jan 6 shit show or her husband's refusal to recuse himself from cases related to the Jan. 6 insurrection now??

Well we all know I love a good conspiracy theory, and this one is as good as any. Of course it could be that this wasn't released by anyone associated with the Court whatsoever. It could have been hacked... it could have been on a laptop that someone dropped off at a repair store and forgot about... someone could have left a copy on the subway. But more likely it was someone who wants to exercise some political influence, right now we don't know who or why. As for Justice Thomas, why would he recuse himself from anything to do with the Jan 6 riot? He's not a party to his wife's actions outside the court, and she is not on the bench.

Going back to your original question--cui bono, who benefits--I think it's clearly the left. I think the person will want to be known, will be a hero to the left, and is probably already talking to their lawyer about a book deal. Whoever this person is will be the next Alexander Vindman, except it's the Supreme Court getting "impeached" this time instead of the President.

 

[Muppet]

I'll drop this right here. Lol

 

[amlove21]

*Checks the zeitgeist*

Quick shout out to the COVID experts turned International geopolitics experts turned constitutional law and medical experts. All of those people have had the worst takes, on all those issues, since they started. Which is weird, cause like, you'd think they'd be good at one just from a numbers perspective.

To think that this discussion is going to be a no-shit national level issue that are going to drive people to vote in November is probably the hardest thing about this issue for me to understand. However, the list of things I don't understand grows daily, so no big surprise there.

 

[Muppet]

 

[Gunz]

It was an abortion, Michael…an abortion!

 

[amlove21]

It was an abortion, Michael…an abortion!

Fantastic Godfather quote here.

 

[AWP]

Fantastic Godfather quote here.

We’re up to like 2 good posts a day. You should check back more often!

 

[Ex3]

I'll drop this right here. Lol

Pregnancy isn't contagious.

 

[Muppet]

Pregnancy isn't contagious.

My body, my choice n all, huh?

 

[Muppet]

Oh, I personally don't think government should be involved with a woman's body, anyone's body, mask, abortion, vaccines, none of it.

But, funny how most that support abortion are the same ones who applaud forced vaccine and mask mandates. My body, my choice goes both ways...

 

[Ex3]

I think you missed my point...I'm lazy and copy/pasted the below because this young lady states it better than I can.

"COVID-19 prevention and seeking the right to abortion are on two different ends of the spectrum when it comes to the “my body, my choice” argument. If we’re being honest, COVID-19 prevention and following COVID-19 protocol shouldn’t even be a topic to debate, since it has a ripple effect on the greater community, both nationally and globally. Whereas whether or not someone wants an abortion really doesn’t impact anyone besides the individual(s) involved."

I've always thought that if men could get pregnant, abortions would be available on aisle 4 of every Home Depot.

 

[Muppet]

Disagree. It's spoken like a true socialist, not you, the paragraph provided. The needs for the group, whatever the group is. Whatever happened to personal freedoms? Flu kills, drugs kill, burgers kill, smoking kills. Sure, it's not a pandemic but we can go back and forth on how virtue signaling and hypocritical this entire pandemic this has become.

 

[Muppet]

And yes on one thing. My wife says the same regarding men and pregnancy.