Abortion Repeal?

[Devildoc]

I think you missed my point...I'm lazy and copy/pasted the below because this young lady states it better than I can.

"COVID-19 prevention and seeking the right to abortion are on two different ends of the spectrum when it comes to the “my body, my choice” argument. If we’re being honest, COVID-19 prevention and following COVID-19 protocol shouldn’t even be a topic to debate, since it has a ripple effect on the greater community, both nationally and globally. Whereas whether or not someone wants an abortion really doesn’t impact anyone besides the individual(s) involved."

I've always thought that if men could get pregnant, abortions would be available on aisle 4 of every Home Depot.

That depends on if one's perspective is when life begins. If you believe that it begins at conception (or at any point up to 40 weeks), then the presumption is that the choice is having a negative effect on another being. If you don't, then it's immaterial to the argument. So...the two sides will never come together on that. Edited to add I believe Margaret Sanger had some pretty...interesting ideas on how abortion affects the greater community.

 

[Devildoc]

*Checks the zeitgeist*

Quick shout out to the COVID experts turned International geopolitics experts turned constitutional law and medical experts. All of those people have had the worst takes, on all those issues, since they started. Which is weird, cause like, you'd think they'd be good at one just from a numbers perspective.

To think that this discussion is going to be a no-shit national level issue that are going to drive people to vote in November is probably the hardest thing about this issue for me to understand. However, the list of things I don't understand grows daily, so no big surprise there.

Every day I become wiser in that I know less and less....

 

[Marauder06]

Every day I become wiser in that I know less and less....

Dunning-Krueger Effect

...and a simplified version ;)

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Wow.

This one actually took me by surprise; Starbucks must be feeling awful confident about who their targeted demographic is, because they seem to be going out of their way to insert themselves into political issues lately.

Starbucks to add abortion travel coverage to U.S. health benefits

 

[TLDR20]

Wow.

This one actually took me by surprise; Starbucks must be feeling awful confident about who their targeted demographic is, because they seem to be going out of their way to insert themselves into political issues lately.

Starbucks to add abortion travel coverage to U.S. health benefits

Cheaper to pay for an abortion than maternal healthcare and a absentee employee.

 

[AMRUSMCR]

I can't imagine the Right thought they would benefit from leaking this. Something like this could galvanize both minority & women swing voters to the polls this coming election cycle and the next and not in their favor.

The impact of reversing Roe V Wade to women in lower income socioeconomic demographics, most especially latina and black women is staggering. This is another way to ensure the wage gap keeps spreading and keep the lower income down. I can't compare it directly to slavery, but it definitely has crippling effects on the current & next few generations in several segments of American society as the lasting impact the institution of slavery has done. Even if it's not about religion for some, it's about ensuring their way of life at the cost of others.

I couldn't agree more with Cookie's, EX's & AWP's posts.

"I do not believe that just because you're opposed to abortion that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed. And why would I think that you don't? Because you don't want any tax money to go there. That's not pro-life. That's pro-birth. We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of pro-life is." Sister Joan Chittister

 

[amlove21]

So- let me see if I am clocking this correctly.

Roe vs Wade, one of the most historically shitty Supreme Court decisions ever filed, may be overturned if we believe this leaked document (no reason not to, but hey, its the world). In practice, this means that the states will again rule what happens in respect to abortion individually. Some states will impose greater restrictions; some will have none; some may make it illegal. Except for the third option- this is already the case.

If you would like to be able to abort your child in the birth canal because "I don't feel like I want to have a baby, this is impacting my mental health", I would like to suggest moving to California or New York, where those 3rd trimester abortions are legal. If the reporting is true- those states or your employer may actually pay for you to go to those states to get the procedure.

If you would like to live in a place that passes the strictest abortion laws on record? Oklahoma. Everywhere else will probably fall somewhere in the middle and the American people can choose to live wherever they'd like.

I am having a hard time with the emotional appeals, obvious politically-driven agendas, wild slippery slope type arguments, extrapolations on 2nd/3rd order impacts, misunderstanding (or in some cases malicious misrepresentation) of polling, the outsize focus on the smallest fringe cases (incest, rape, verified genetic defect of the fetus), religious arguments, cognitive dissonance- the whole thing.

I suppose I just need to internalize further and get some more information. Thanks to all for rounding out this nuanced argument.

***Oh- and I am allowed to have an opinion on this, because "woman" is not able to be defined and men can get pregnant and have abortions. Just wanna make that clear***

 

[Bypass]

All repealing Roe will do is send the decisions on abortion back to the states and the people where it belongs. ROE Vs WADE was never a constitutional right to be decided by the SCOTUS to begin with.

 

[Gunz]

All repealing Roe will do is send the decisions on abortion back to the states and the people where it belongs. ROE Vs WADE was never a constitutional right to be decided by the SCOTUS to begin with.

I agree. The hysteria is just that. Put the coathangers back in the closet.

 

[Zulien]

I really don’t care about abortion, if anything it’s the last form of eugenics we have. Western countries already have a demographic and intelligence decline problem

However strictly Con Law speaking, the constitution provides nothing on the topic of abortion

 

[Marauder06]

I really don’t care about abortion, if anything it’s the last form of eugenics we have. Western countries already have a demographic and intelligence decline problem

However strictly Con Law speaking, the constitution provides nothing on the topic of abortion

Exactly.

 

[ThunderHorse]

So, like it's a crime to protest outside a Federal Judge's home, but Psaki was instigating that shit awhile back:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1534568457370583046

Just, you know, Democrats casually inciting people.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1534562557419192321

And now... Man claiming he prepared to kill Brett Kavanaugh was angry over Roe v. Wade

 

[Zulien]

So, like it's a crime to protest outside a Federal Judge's home, but Psaki was instigating that shit awhile back:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1534568457370583046

Just, you know, Democrats casually inciting people.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1534562557419192321

And now... Man claiming he prepared to kill Brett Kavanaugh was angry over Roe v. Wade

Oh you didn’t hear? That’s a right wing conspiracy propagated by Tucker Carlson and the Kremlin

 

[Topkick]

I really don’t care about abortion, if anything it’s the last form of eugenics we have. Western countries already have a demographic and intelligence decline problem

However strictly Con Law speaking, the constitution provides nothing on the topic of abortion

I'm not taking a side here, because I don't feel that abortion is my problem. Just pointing out that the argument is whether abortion is murder or not.

 

[Muppet]

I am against abortion, but, I'm also against any government having a say what a woman does to her body.

I understand that for a small few, abortion may be necessary but, using it as birth control or having some fat fucking politician/government tell anyone on what to do with their body is tyranny.

Same goes for vaccines.

 

[Topkick]

I am against abortion, but, I'm also against any government having a say what a woman does to her body.

I understand that for a small few, abortion may be necessary but, using it as birth control or having some fat fucking politician/government tell anyone on what to do with their body is tyranny.

Same goes for vaccines.

Pretty much sums it up. I believe in freedom, but we all have to live and die with the choices we make.

 

[AWP]

The Constitution doesn’t address medical care, but states aren’t telling you that putting a cast on a broken arm is a Constitutional issue.

If you say this is medical care, you then have one hurdle to overcome. This comes down to whether you think abortion is or isn’t murder. That distinction is “when does life begin.”

I stand by my earlier post: this topic is religion masquerading as law. I’ll bet a dollar most pro-lifers are hiding behind the 10th Amendment when their true motivations are religious in nature. They also won’t say that, and that makes them cowards.

 

[Topkick]

I stand by my earlier post: this topic is religion masquerading as law. I’ll bet a dollar most pro-lifers are hiding behind the 10th Amendment when their true motivations are religious in nature. They also won’t say that, and that makes them cowards.

I think this is very true. I'm not a very good Christian, but I'll admit that any reservations I have about abortion are definitely religious in nature. I don't want to be on the wrong side of this.

 

[AWP]

I think this is very true. I'm not a very good Christian, but I'll admit that any reservations I have about abortion are definitely religious in nature. I don't want to be on the wrong side of this.

Your religious views give you the right to tell someone what they can do with their body? That’s insane and probably illegal.

Credit where it is due though: you manned up and admitted that religion is driving your opinions.

 

[Devildoc]

The whole "my body, my choice" argument is so full of holes it's practically transparent. Like so many things, the government (both federal and state) is very hypocritical in that regard.

I maintain that the religious aspect is just one aspect, and to me, the least defensible.

Edited to add, how this is a federal/constitutional issue continues to flummox me (admitting I am not a lawyer); especially when even liberal judges feel SCOTUS overreached in R v W.