ARMY NATIONAL GUARD (ARNG) SPECIAL FORCES (SF) UNITS

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Echo

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"Besides sustainment of their occupational skills, SF personnel often have additional skill
sets, including Military Free Fall (MFF), Special Operations Target Interdiction Course (SOTIC),
combat diver, Special Forces Advanced Urban Combat (SFAUC), and jumpmaster—along with
one of the most significant additional skills, operations and intelligence training. These
advanced military occupational skills are required for at least two Soldiers in all Special Forces
detachments. According to regulations, each operational detachment will have a minimum of
three jumpmasters, two SOTIC (level 1) Soldiers, two Advanced Special Operations Techniques
ASOT (level III) Soldiers. Also, all SF Soldiers will be SFAUC and ASOT (level II) qualified. For
detachments designated as MFF or combat diver, there is the additional requirement for two
MFF jumpmasters or two dive supervisors and two dive medical officers respectively.

Additionally, each Special Forces detachment will have a qualified Air Movement Officer (AMO)
and a Soldier qualified in handling hazardous materials (HAZMAT). These are minimal
requirements for both the Guard and Active Duty Special Forces units. These additional
specialty skill sets require proficiency and sustainment training. Specialty skills are perishable,
so they require periodic requalification. Regulations do not allow specialty training to dominate a
training calendar year, so commanders must find a way to integrate this training into other
training requirements.

Besides the specialty training requirement for SF Soldiers, there is a requirement for
acquiring or sustaining other skills. All Soldiers are required to attend formal courses to aid in
their professional development, such as a Non-Commissioned Officer Course and possibly the
Operations and Intelligence Course. Language refresher and enhancement training is required
and tested annually. Regional Orientation training is a hallmark of Special Forces Soldiers.
Each Active Duty unit has the goal of deploying in theater once each fiscal year (FY); Guard SF
units have the goal of deploying every three years.

All SF members are required to have comprehensive Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical
training and to integrate this training into tactical training. Another area of special emphasis in
the Special Forces community is physical fitness. In SF, commanders are authorized to
establish fitness standards that exceed Army minimums and to conduct fitness programs
designed to increase their Soldiers’ fitness. With only scheduled monthly weekend drills for
ARNG SF and in view of all of the tasks that must be accomplished, physical fitness is largely
left to the individual."

- Excerpt from ARMY NATIONAL GUARD (ARNG) SPECIAL FORCES (SF) UNITS:
THE STANDARD AND THE FUTURE

Colonel John E. Smith
United States Army National Guard
 

Echo

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Is this "standard" actually kept at NG SF units? What about AD?
 

AWP

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Based on personal experiences I can state that COL Smith is a spineless tool who seemingly made O-6 through divine intervention. Also based on personal experiences I found one passage highly amusing, but I guess he couldn't admit to breaking the law in his own thesis.
 

surgicalcric

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FF: Thank you for saying what I was thinking about the COL.

He is off base on a few things in the text you quoted Echo, but yes the "standard" is upheld at the ODA and company levels with the exception of His misspeaks.

Also, I dont know any NG SF guy on an ODA who only does a weekend (4 days) a month/2-weeks in the summer. Most of us are far more active than that...thats just the minimum.
 

TB1077

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Surgicalcric, this does bring up questions for myself as I am interested in joining the NG. Obviously NG SF is going to need more than a weekend a month and 2 weeks in the summer, but what can be expected. Obviously there are variables, but I would love to know the normal expectations beyond the minimum. It seems as though in order to keep both physical and tactical training up to standards, it would require quite a bit more time than the minimum.
 

surgicalcric

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Surgicalcric, this does bring up questions for myself as I am interested in joining the NG. Obviously NG SF is going to need more than a weekend a month and 2 weeks in the summer, but what can be expected. Obviously there are variables, but I would love to know the normal expectations beyond the minimum. It seems as though in order to keep both physical and tactical training up to standards, it would require quite a bit more time than the minimum.

There are quite a few variables to take into consideration when talking about NG SF and the amount of time one must put forth to stay ahead of the curve. The variables are honestly too numerous to cover in a single post so I would admonish you to search the threads here and on PS.com for NG SF topics; there is plenty to keep you busy.

That said, the amount of time people put into it varies on what they want to get out of it quite honestly, as well as what the Team SGT expects of them as a member of a team. For instance, there are quite a few follow on schools that are necessary for an ODA to complete its mission. These courses are handed down based on an OML (Order of Merit List) or on who is available to go. Aside from from formal training courses and drills, where we conduct training in ABN OPS and MOS cross-training to range time, many NG SF guys work from home on team stuff trying to keep up with all the taskings and demands.

As for Physical Training, it isnt something that just gets done at 0600 for the AD guys. They are in the gym on their own time too. It would stand to reason that most PT is done on a persons own schedule.

Crip
 

x SF med

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Surgicalcric, this does bring up questions for myself as I am interested in joining the NG. Obviously NG SF is going to need more than a weekend a month and 2 weeks in the summer, but what can be expected. Obviously there are variables, but I would love to know the normal expectations beyond the minimum. It seems as though in order to keep both physical and tactical training up to standards, it would require quite a bit more time than the minimum.

TB.... the minimum expectations for SF are excellence in everything required or requested... above the max for Skill and PT testing.... It takes what it takes, if you are worried about that, STFU and GTFA .... the normal expectations are to achieve excellence, and maintain that proficiency .... it takes what it takes... what will it take you to maintain it?

You rely on yourself, you rely on your team, you rely on your brothers - but that reliance goes bothe ways... you owe them and they owe you.... what's it gonna take to 'maintain' what's 'normal' - here are your answers - what's it going to take to maintain? whatever it takes. What's 'normal'? Normal is a town in Illinois, no shit, if you want 'normal' move there... not out of the ordinary, SOP is whatever the mission demands.

Oh, from your questions throughout this site, I don't think you will do well in SF, please try to find another line of work.
 

TB1077

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Crip,
Thanks for the info. I have researched this topic quite a bit (here, PS.com, and the NG forums) and I am sure there is more info that I have not seen yet, I just happened to be reading this thread and I thought I would ask as it was one of the topics at hand. In actuality, I was not just asking for myself, but to find out in general how the NG is able to keep up with AD in regards to being fully prepared.

xSF med,
I apologize for my question. It was not worded properly to get the information I was looking for. It was more of a question of comparison between the NG and AD. Thanks for your insight.

TB
 

surgicalcric

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...In actuality, I was not just asking for myself, but to find out in general how the NG is able to keep up with AD in regards to being fully prepared.

We do it through dedication to the mission and our teammates. Being an active NG SF guy requires us to give of our time and resources and make sacrifices in other areas the AD guys dont because of the nature of our being in the NG.

One other thing, many NG SF guys civilian careers directly benefit their 18-series MOS's. For instance, a sister team's 18B's teach CQM to other deploying units, one of the 18C's work in construction and the other is an electrical engineer on an oil rig, one 18D is a nurse anesthetist and the other a paramedic instructor, one 18E works for Harris communications and the other is a network admin for sysco, the 18F teaches new Fox's the program they use to associate information together, the TM SGT (former 18E) is a jet propulsion engineer for NASA (yes, you read that correctly), and the TL is an attorney.

Giving you a better cross section of the team guys in my company: we have 13 LEO's (local, state, federal), 9 firefighter/paramedics, 2 nurses, 1 PA, 9 professional engineers, 2 airline pilots, 4 business owners, 6 NG SF bums (guys who go from school to deployment to schools), 9 fulltime AGR (Active Guard Reserve), and several contractors working a variety of jobs...

Aside from the MOS stuff there are near constant opportunities for guys to stay busy going places and doing things. It is really not as difficult for those who want to stay engaged to do so; you just have to look for opportunities and be open to doing what the team needs you to do, which may not always be what you would want to do (HAZMAT, Load Mgrs Course, AMO, etc...) Guys who pass on opportunities to help the team get passed over when the time comes for schools like MFF, SFSC, language training in Orlando, FL, etc...

Mission, men, me isnt just a mantra.
 

dknob

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I've been seriously considering 20th Group in FL. This has been a good thread. Thanks.
 

LM

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TB.... the minimum expectations for SF are excellence in everything required or requested... above the max for Skill and PT testing.... It takes what it takes, if you are worried about that, STFU and GTFA .... the normal expectations are to achieve excellence, and maintain that proficiency .... it takes what it takes... what will it take you to maintain it?

You rely on yourself, you rely on your team, you rely on your brothers - but that reliance goes bothe ways... you owe them and they owe you.... what's it gonna take to 'maintain' what's 'normal' - here are your answers - what's it going to take to maintain? whatever it takes. What's 'normal'? Normal is a town in Illinois, no shit, if you want 'normal' move there... not out of the ordinary, SOP is whatever the mission demands.

Oh, from your questions throughout this site, I don't think you will do well in SF, please try to find another line of work.

lol, your fuckin ruthless. I guess I better be on my toes when asking my questions then :)
 

dknob

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is there a negative connotation with being a "NG SF bum" (someone who just goes to school and deploys)?
 

LM

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is there a negative connotation with being a "NG SF bum" (someone who just goes to school and deploys)?

not at all. its a dream gig actually. If I could be a NG bum (since non-SF) I would do it in a heartbeat..
 

AWP

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is there a negative connotation with being a "NG SF bum" (someone who just goes to school and deploys)?

Depends on the person and the context. The MAGSOTA debacle of the early 90's would be a negative, the guy who chases schools and deployments and still puts in time with his team would be a positive or neutral descriptor.

"Dude, where you been?"
"Guard bumming. State ADSW, JM school, working some man days prepping for AT, more man days running the range for those ROTC cadets, stuff like that."
 

LM

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I did a search here and google, nothing comes up for MAGSOTA- can you shed some light on that?
 

surgicalcric

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is there a negative connotation with being a "NG SF bum" (someone who just goes to school and deploys)?

Yes and no as FF stated.

Unfortunately there isnt the demand, yet, to have more guys active (not active duty but always on the go.)

I have been one since graduating the SFQC in Sep '07. I have been to every school I want (and a few I didn't because thats what my ODA needed me to do) and have my share of trips as well as having spent time teaching at our OPS DET. When I return I will probably be taking a job at Hurlburt on ADSW orders...after I get done with Jedburg and Ranger School... lol.

Not to mention trips to Orlando for 4-6 month stints to "bone up" on your target language or another language if you so desire...

3rd/20th has a good reputation across the Regiment as a whole. I think you would enjoy it there... BTW, there is quite a few ADSW jobs to be had at McDill and in SOCSOUTH if interested.

Crip
 

dknob

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Well I live in Orlando now, so I dont see 4-6 month Orlando stints as a big deal ;) - been here since 1992 (was in Bulgaria before). I definitely know my fair share of Spanish.

I am very very interested, spoke to somebody (20th recruiter) - forgot his name. And did the PT test with a local NG recruiter (one of his contacts). Next step is going up there for the interview process. I really want this; my rifle is locked and loaded, looking down the barrel towards the target, I just havent pulled the trigger. It's been 4 years since I've been out of the 75th so forgive my hesitancy.
 

x SF med

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lol, your fuckin ruthless. I guess I better be on my toes when asking my questions then :)

I am still a member in good standing of the 1st SF Regiment, I take that very seriously. I would not say I was so much ruthless as brutally honest. A question about 'minimums' or 'normal' in SF is laughable, sad, and misguided... What part of SPECIAL Forces is so difficult to fathom? When you get to the end of your reserves, dig down and start pulling from your soul, when that's exhausted, find another deeper level to pull from... that's the expectation in SFAS and the Q Course, on a Team, you find levels that are in other dimensions and pull from them.

...and yes, I am The Troll, ruthless and brutally honest is part of me - but then again, I'm not so different from the rest of my SF Brothers...
 

TLDR20

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...and yes, I am The Troll, ruthless and brutally honest is part of me - but then again, I'm not so different from the rest of my SF Brothers...

Apart from not being as strikingly good looking as me, you are not so different.
 
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