Our company has an OML based off of 1. Team METL and specialty and 2. Collective ODA OML's set by the respective Team Daddies. This applies more to cool guy schools than admin schools (JM being an admin school).
ARMY NATIONAL GUARD (ARNG) SPECIAL FORCES (SF) UNITS
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Heard there is a now a TX SF NG unit. Just curious as to how NG SF operates and trains compared to AD. Hopefully the thread ends up helping others as well.
There are actually two SF units in TX now. Both C Co's, from two different battalions. How that shit makes any sense with the already convoluted NG chain of command is beyond me, but I can tell you they've got talent and support. I've got some great friends down there that I'd walk a hard mile with any day.
As far as AD comparison goes, my previous statements stand. Oo-rah and so forth.
As far as AD comparison goes, my previous statements stand. Oo-rah and so forth.
So what you are saying is that you failed to read any of the other threads here comparing NG and AD SF...
Hopefully the "others" who follow after you will not follow in your steps of asking questions previously covered elsewhere on this board.
Go do PT...
Are you serious or are you just trying to pull everyone's chain?
I know, I know, ive got the comomon scenario though, so i wont go into it, no question i can ask hasnt been asked 1k times before and that i dont already know the answer to- ive just got to make the solid mental commitment.
Anyway- I think Ive got a question to go back on course-
So, Im NG, Ive got another SPC thats only been NG, but feels he wants to go AD 18X. Im trying to tell him he is probably better off with NG than AD so he can finish his degree. He is gonna have to put basically the same time in for training ect anyway, why not do it NG and get the college done, and if he still feels he wants AD, then he can always volunteer for deployments ect, or go actual AD without issue.
also, I havent said this to him, but i think its probably better to try it NG first, if for some reason he doesnt make the cut, I will take him back and he can re-evaluate what he wants while still doin a better than line company grunt mission (he is not B4 yet BTW)
Now, somone correct me if im wrong, but if he goes AD 18x contract- and does not make it, what happens to him then? regular line company at the discretion of AD?
Do you mean have him go NG SF and then AD SF after he finishes his degree? We didn't care for that on the support side, but we also had far less time and money in one of our guys than an 18 series, so I'll let them answer that.
As to failing out of 18x, yes he becomes "needs of the Army" at that point.
Not so much as an intentional NG-AD after degree, but accomplish what he wants now, while being able to get a degree. If after he has both done, BA and Q'd, he can decide for himself if he really still wants to be AD, as he doesnt know what AD is yet. All he knows about AD is the few weeks he goes on orders while in support of a few schools at the local base, and AT training that is mediocre at best where his former Company BBQ'd and got shitfaced every night and training was done when the sun went down.. Does that kinda make sense what im trying to say?
The kid is a PT stud, and smart, smartass actually, and tactically sound so far, but ive only had him for 6-7 months now and barely getting to show him what the real deal is
The kid is a PT stud, and smart, smartass actually, and tactically sound so far, but ive only had him for 6-7 months now and barely getting to show him what the real deal is
If he wants to be AD/RA... then go AD/RA... don't take a manning/training slot from the NG company if he is not going to fill the commitment, just to get a degree... fulfill his current commitment and get his degree, then re enlist AD/RA for an SF contract... My NG SF brothers don't need slot hogs taking time, money and manpower just to get quaified and jump to one of the RA Groups. That's selfish, and dishonest as hell... if you make the commitment, make it ... if you get put through SFAS and the QCourse as an NG soldier, fulfill your commitment to them, then go to an AD unit if you are still eligible and that's what you want to do. This is a sore spot for SF... a little research on your part would have steered you away from even thinking to post it, again.
And, yes, Needs of Big Green if you fail.
post what again? different guy different situation
i see your point of taking slots. but really in the end whats the difference. Im sure if he makes it through everything his views will change. Its 1 Army, whether AD or NG, do you really feel their is lack of commitment because he wants to do it fulltime as opposed to NG time (whatever NG time may be to a NG SF unit)
i see your point of taking slots. but really in the end whats the difference. Im sure if he makes it through everything his views will change. Its 1 Army, whether AD or NG, do you really feel their is lack of commitment because he wants to do it fulltime as opposed to NG time (whatever NG time may be to a NG SF unit)
LM, I'm calling bullshit on your post - it's the same argument, just a different day.
1. He's NG, if he takes a NG SF slot, fulfill or fail there.
2. if he takes an AD SF slot, fulfill or fail there.
3. The degree is personal, unless he's bucking for OCS, then he needs to fulfill his current obligation to the unit he is in.
4. SF is very tight - and the more granular you get (down to Team level) the tighter it gets.
Taking that slot and then bailing for AD is Bravo Foxtrot, and leaves the team screwed for that slot until a new person can make it through the pipeline...
No it's not a new situation - it's the exact same one with a different avatar asking it. I don't care if you are his SL/TL, you are asking the best way to screw a very hard working portion of the 1st SF Regiment so that this kid can get a degree, get trained and then be AD.
The Honor and Integrity of the individual, and you come into question... failure in either or both of those are disqualifiers for service in the 1st SF Regiment.
Don't even think about arguing any more - you dug your friggin hole, put down the e-tool and prepare for more incomming fire.
sorry boss, for asking specific questions in a specific thread. i do not however see it as a question of my honor and integrity, as mine are beyond reproach on both accounts. I wants whats best for him, and the Army, did you miss that part about 1 Army, whether AD or NG? Do you not feel that way?
Beyond your chest pounding posts, you did however give me the answer i was looking for, from your POV. There are however many other 18 series guys in here, i would like to hear an honest assessment from them as well, and hopefullly its not just a backing of their 18 series brother, but an honest, "this is what i feel, and this is how the guys in my tm, ect. feel" and possibly maybe even someone that has thought and did the ssame thing, and why they chose to go AD, stay NG or some other combination
Beyond your chest pounding posts, you did however give me the answer i was looking for, from your POV. There are however many other 18 series guys in here, i would like to hear an honest assessment from them as well, and hopefullly its not just a backing of their 18 series brother, but an honest, "this is what i feel, and this is how the guys in my tm, ect. feel" and possibly maybe even someone that has thought and did the ssame thing, and why they chose to go AD, stay NG or some other combination
I will honor your request and let other SF guys tell you what they believe - and the snarky friggin comment about 'backing an 18 series brother' was completely uncalled for, I was stating the feeling of the SF community... screw your "One Army" bullshit... the funding and the training budget are split, the State gets screwed hard when they have to repay Big Green for 2 years of Training an SF Soldier who is supposed to be available for them for 6 years, leaves immediately and that slot that was manned as IAT is open again... because that individual decided they wanted to steal the resources of that NG SF BN/Company/Team to take an AD slot.... The kid has to make his own decisions, and trying to game the system and screwing an already undermanned, overtasked and budget strapped NG SF Company is wrong, PERIOD. FUCKING. DOT. Is it now clear why I feel this way.
LM:
In the interest of not supporting a Brother for the sake of it and since I am a NG guy...
While I can appreciate what you are saying, and believe - more so hope - that it is just a matter of semantics on your behalf that has caused the above noted confusion, the matter at hand is why the lad wants to be SF and whether he can best be served in the NG or AD. I try not to persuade guys either way but simply lay down the pros and cons of each and let the individual make up their mind - in the end it is their commitment or lack thereof we are talking about. Many of the pros and cons to each can be found on SS.com or on PS.com if you are looking for more research or want to point the SPC to where it can be found.
I will tell you, as others before me here and in past threads on this topic have attest to, using NG SF slots to get Q'd then jumping ship, for whatever reason, is frowned upon. Most SF companies can only send a certain number of people to SFAS/SFQC each class/year because of budgetary constraints which are not present on AD. To assist in narrowing the pool of dedicated persons most if not all the individual SF Companies will run a SFRE (Special Forces Readiness Eval) for prospective candidates in the hope that in 18-24 months there will be a Special Forces soldier filling a hole on an ODA until their commitment is fulfilled. It is one Army, one Fight until it comes to manning and budgets. Neither of the NG Groups receive near the operational, training, or travel budgets (not talking about P&A) that the AD Groups receive from USASFC and as such cannot afford to waste time or resources on such people.
If he plans to finish his commitment to the NG then head over to AD I am sure one of the admin guys will assist him in the paperwork and obtaining the necessary signatures. However if his plans are to use NG training slots and dollars IOT get his Tab and degree at the same time (which will not happen in the SFQC BTW) then to jump ship while clearing Ft Bragg I would tell him to figure out the process on his own time/dime and get the necessary signatures from the Group Commander himself.
HTH,
Crip
In the interest of not supporting a Brother for the sake of it and since I am a NG guy...
While I can appreciate what you are saying, and believe - more so hope - that it is just a matter of semantics on your behalf that has caused the above noted confusion, the matter at hand is why the lad wants to be SF and whether he can best be served in the NG or AD. I try not to persuade guys either way but simply lay down the pros and cons of each and let the individual make up their mind - in the end it is their commitment or lack thereof we are talking about. Many of the pros and cons to each can be found on SS.com or on PS.com if you are looking for more research or want to point the SPC to where it can be found.
I will tell you, as others before me here and in past threads on this topic have attest to, using NG SF slots to get Q'd then jumping ship, for whatever reason, is frowned upon. Most SF companies can only send a certain number of people to SFAS/SFQC each class/year because of budgetary constraints which are not present on AD. To assist in narrowing the pool of dedicated persons most if not all the individual SF Companies will run a SFRE (Special Forces Readiness Eval) for prospective candidates in the hope that in 18-24 months there will be a Special Forces soldier filling a hole on an ODA until their commitment is fulfilled. It is one Army, one Fight until it comes to manning and budgets. Neither of the NG Groups receive near the operational, training, or travel budgets (not talking about P&A) that the AD Groups receive from USASFC and as such cannot afford to waste time or resources on such people.
If he plans to finish his commitment to the NG then head over to AD I am sure one of the admin guys will assist him in the paperwork and obtaining the necessary signatures. However if his plans are to use NG training slots and dollars IOT get his Tab and degree at the same time (which will not happen in the SFQC BTW) then to jump ship while clearing Ft Bragg I would tell him to figure out the process on his own time/dime and get the necessary signatures from the Group Commander himself.
HTH,
Crip
first i owe an apology, I do now see that this has been asked many times before. AS you can see, ive only been here a few days and all my reading/searching has been B4 specifc, but as i go into the past pages of SF section, I see this has been asked many times before. I have about 15 windows open now that look like they already addressed this question. and im writing this part w/o reading your above repsonce yet.
after reading above-
loyalty to the team- company/reg comments you and everyone has already made clear, is why i made the backing 18x brothers comment
moron? whatever you say boss, enjoy your day. ill be back if i have any more questions that were not previously answered, enjoy your day :)
after reading above-
loyalty to the team- company/reg comments you and everyone has already made clear, is why i made the backing 18x brothers comment
moron? whatever you say boss, enjoy your day. ill be back if i have any more questions that were not previously answered, enjoy your day :)
LM, I'll address the "College while in the NG"angle because I was once there.
In a SOF unit, or even those with a high optempo in the NG, you have two types of college students: Those who put the unit ahead of themselves and those who put themselves ahead of the unit.
Guess which one made for a better soldier?
If you want to be in the Guard and earn a degree, by all means go for it. I would say this to anyone.
If you want to be in a SOF unit, or high optempo unit in the Guard, and earn a degree I would say to stay home or go elsewhere. I saw very few guys balance both, VERY FEW, because of the demands placed upon them by both combined with life demands such as a family, bills, or a job. I'm sure there are a few "Went to college while going through the Q Course" guys out there, but I'm not aware of them and I don't know of any from my 10 years as a support guy in an NG SF battalion. You either had the degree and then went to the Q or completed the Q and then went for your degree, I didn't see the "I'll take a class this semester and then go to SFAS the next semester and then knock out another 2 classes while waiting on SFQC orders" kind of guys.
And those guys who put college first, even if they were good soldiers? We hated them. They were not promoted, they didn't go to schools, they made it clear that they wanted the college money and a cool hat. I begged to deploy, I begged for schools, and college was secondary to me. Did I pay for it in college? Yes I did, but the reality is that you can be a good soldier in the Guard or a good college student, but you can't do both. Even my OCS classmates who were in college while going to the Guard OCS program saw themselves making a choice at times: Guard commitments or study for a class. Almost all of us took a hit in our GPAs while attending OCS and these are guys who wanted to be there and understood the ramifications of their decisions....and they weren't even exposed to the demands of being in SF.
Tell your buddy to pick one or the other.
In a SOF unit, or even those with a high optempo in the NG, you have two types of college students: Those who put the unit ahead of themselves and those who put themselves ahead of the unit.
Guess which one made for a better soldier?
If you want to be in the Guard and earn a degree, by all means go for it. I would say this to anyone.
If you want to be in a SOF unit, or high optempo unit in the Guard, and earn a degree I would say to stay home or go elsewhere. I saw very few guys balance both, VERY FEW, because of the demands placed upon them by both combined with life demands such as a family, bills, or a job. I'm sure there are a few "Went to college while going through the Q Course" guys out there, but I'm not aware of them and I don't know of any from my 10 years as a support guy in an NG SF battalion. You either had the degree and then went to the Q or completed the Q and then went for your degree, I didn't see the "I'll take a class this semester and then go to SFAS the next semester and then knock out another 2 classes while waiting on SFQC orders" kind of guys.
And those guys who put college first, even if they were good soldiers? We hated them. They were not promoted, they didn't go to schools, they made it clear that they wanted the college money and a cool hat. I begged to deploy, I begged for schools, and college was secondary to me. Did I pay for it in college? Yes I did, but the reality is that you can be a good soldier in the Guard or a good college student, but you can't do both. Even my OCS classmates who were in college while going to the Guard OCS program saw themselves making a choice at times: Guard commitments or study for a class. Almost all of us took a hit in our GPAs while attending OCS and these are guys who wanted to be there and understood the ramifications of their decisions....and they weren't even exposed to the demands of being in SF.
Tell your buddy to pick one or the other.
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A question if I may.. Do AD ODA's supply Cadre to NG ODA's or are they totally separate entities?
I appreciate the insight Gents. and as I am reading older posts I have not come across one yet that directly affects my questions.
I will say this though, it does seem, as though going AD-NG or vice versa is frowned upon if the intentions were there from the beginning. Now have you guys know of or been in the position that you or someone you know of, thought about making the switch, and did they go through with it? or I assume most fulfill the commitment before doing so i presume. Because i totally agree with it, and im sure once you get to that "place" your already aware of the resentment an outcome of the action of switching, and already have made that commitment to the team your/themselves and would not do such a thing.
so another question- those of you that put off college in order to finish the Q, do you now regret not getting your degree and then doing, or are you glad you finished the Q and then persued the BA/MA?
I will say this though, it does seem, as though going AD-NG or vice versa is frowned upon if the intentions were there from the beginning. Now have you guys know of or been in the position that you or someone you know of, thought about making the switch, and did they go through with it? or I assume most fulfill the commitment before doing so i presume. Because i totally agree with it, and im sure once you get to that "place" your already aware of the resentment an outcome of the action of switching, and already have made that commitment to the team your/themselves and would not do such a thing.
so another question- those of you that put off college in order to finish the Q, do you now regret not getting your degree and then doing, or are you glad you finished the Q and then persued the BA/MA?
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