ARMY NATIONAL GUARD (ARNG) SPECIAL FORCES (SF) UNITS

[surgicalcric]

I have been working on my Masters for quite a while now but cant seem to stay stopped long enough to finish. No I do not regret not having finished it; my commitment is to my ODA. The MA can wait until my body is broken, again...

I know quite a few guys who have gone from the NG to AD and know plenty of AD guys who came to the NG after their AD commitment was up... There are more of the latter than the former, from my perspective. Other guys may have a different view on it.

 

[surgicalcric]

A question if I may.. Do AD ODA's supply Cadre to NG ODA's or are they totally separate entities?

Cadre for what?

 

[LM]

Thankls for the help. Hope I didnt ruffle too many feathers in the process ;)

 

[dknob]

cleric, I definitely could use some 1on1 time in the near future regarding this decision.

 

[x SF med]

first i owe an apology, I do now see that this has been asked many times before. AS you can see, ive only been here a few days and all my reading/searching has been B4 specifc, but as i go into the past pages of SF section, I see this has been asked many times before. I have about 15 windows open now that look like they already addressed this question. and im writing this part w/o reading your above repsonce yet.

after reading above-
loyalty to the team- company/reg comments you and everyone has already made clear, is why i made the backing 18x brothers comment
moron? whatever you say boss, enjoy your day. ill be back if i have any more questions that were not previously answered, enjoy your day :)

I re-read and edited the last line of my post. Apologies for the comment which is now gone.

I was an AD only SF guy... my strong feelings on the NG side are due to an high Optempo, tough Training/manning situation, and the fact that an average of 20 months and a huge chunk of dollars are spent training each SF Soldier... no matter NG or AD... and there is no getting around that- have been abused by some to the detriment of a very important and committed part of the SF Regiment that is funded on two fronts and has commitments to both.

To your comment re: backing 18 series brothers - yes we do, we have very tightly shared brotherhood... but if one of us is wrong, we will address it, it will be taken care of and apologies will be made if necessary... this brotherhood is one of the things that sets all SOF people apart from most of the military, it's found in Rangers, PJs, CCT, Recon, NSW, etc... there is a bond to those brothers by choice that is forged by commitment and can not be described to anybody who does not have it... and that's just when you get out of training, once it gets forged by time on a Team it's just part of your 'self'.

I put my BA 'on-hold' to enlist and will never regret it, my total education by joining the Army and specifically SF was more complete than any University could deliver. I finished it and additional coursework after I got out, and after my experiences with the true firehose of the SF medical pipeline, College was like drinking from a water fountain.

 

[Crusader74]

Cadre for what?

For cross training with AD ODA's.

 

[surgicalcric]

For cross training with AD ODA's.

We don't cross train per say (since both AD and NG guys attend the same SFQC) but we train together from time to time and also on occasion 3rd and 7th Groups will send ODAs to attend our Advanced Urban Combat Course. The majority of combined training is done on the individual level while attending other courses of study.

We do more training with the 160th (at our Training Detachment) than the other SF Groups...

 

[Crusader74]

We don't cross train per say (since both AD and NG guys attend the same SFQC) but we train together from time to time and also on occasion 3rd and 7th Groups will send ODAs to attend our Advanced Urban Combat Course. The majority of combined training is done on the individual level while attending other courses of study.

We do more training with the 160th (at our Training Detachment) than the other SF Groups...

Cheers for that Crip.

 

[TLDR20]

Here is the thing, I didn't join with the intention of going to the guard, but I am now doing that now. It is still looked down upon by other AD guys. I am doing it for personal reasons, but still want to serve the regiment, I could see a guy who has done a few deployments on the guard wanting to go active, I don't see it as a roblem if he has served his time to the unit that supported his training. But others will, people will feel betrayed by a quick transfer. A few of my buddies have tried and been shot down trying to go on AD. I do think the degree thing is shady, training group is a 100% commitment, he will not be able to go to school while at SWTG. If he is he is shamming one of the two.

 

[LM]

Here is the thing, I didn't join with the intention of going to the guard, but I am now doing that now. It is still looked down upon by other AD guys. I am doing it for personal reasons, but still want to serve the regiment, I could see a guy who has done a few deployments on the guard wanting to go active, I don't see it as a roblem if he has served his time to the unit that supported his training. But others will, people will feel betrayed by a quick transfer. A few of my buddies have tried and been shot down trying to go on AD. I do think the degree thing is shady, training group is a 100% commitment, he will not be able to go to school while at SWTG. If he is he is shamming one of the two.

Thanks, that was the kinda 1st hand experience I was looking for

 

[surgicalcric]

We have about 18 guys in our company who fled 5th Group like the plague last year... Have a few from 7th and 3rd as well and will probably pick up some more 7th Group guys due to the move to FL... Conversely our company has only lost one guy to AD in the past 3 years, and we wanted him to leave...

Crip

 

[Echo]

Here is the thing, I didn't join with the intention of going to the guard, but I am now doing that now. It is still looked down upon by other AD guys. I am doing it for personal reasons, but still want to serve the regiment

I was criticized in another post for stating that I was interested in SF and had the intentions of attempting some national level unit later. What I really meant was I am interested in that type of a support role when I was older and "retired", more experienced and probably not into jumping out of a perfectly good airplane as much. Another factor would be the ability to remain in a "SOF" type team environment, OPTEMPO, and training/learning opportunities while being close to home and the family. I've looked closely at BORTAC but the three years mandatory time as a regular agent kind of pushes me away as I'm not getting any younger. Their mission to my limited knowledge closely resembles Army SF in some aspects (international training/advisory functions, counter terrorism operations, counter narcotics operations, high-risk warrant service, dignitary protection, interdiction & patrol operations, and tactical training to other U.S. agencies and military units). TX SF NG is the other option.

 

[surgicalcric]

...BORTAC. Their mission to my limited knowledge closely resembles Army SF in some aspects (international training/advisory functions, counter terrorism operations, counter narcotics operations, high-risk warrant service, dignitary protection, interdiction & patrol operations, and tactical training to other U.S. agencies and military units). TX SF NG is the other option.

I could draw similarities between SF and the girlscouts but...

There are more glaring differences than there are similarities in the two organizations you list above.

More reading...

 

[TLDR20]

I was criticized in another post for stating that I was interested in SF and had the intentions of attempting some national level unit later. What I really meant was I am interested in that type of a support role when I was older and "retired", more experienced and probably not into jumping out of a perfectly good airplane as much. Another factor would be the ability to remain in a "SOF" type team environment, OPTEMPO, and training/learning opportunities while being close to home and the family. I've looked closely at BORTAC but the three years mandatory time as a regular agent kind of pushes me away as I'm not getting any younger. Their mission to my limited knowledge closely resembles Army SF in some aspects (international training/advisory functions, counter terrorism operations, counter narcotics operations, high-risk warrant service, dignitary protection, interdiction & patrol operations, and tactical training to other U.S. agencies and military units). TX SF NG is the other option.

Bro you have got to take a deep breath. I am telling you this before you get dogpiled. You are a SPC deployed in AFG right now right? You state in your intro that you want to go to SFAS, but are talking above about SF as a backup. If SF is your back-up you do not freaking belong here. You know what my back-up to SF was. West Point. I got in prior to going to SFAS. But I stuck with SF because in my mind I had made that commitment. It is a 100% commitment. It was never this or that for me or anyone else. It was SF. It was a calling. It does not seem like it is the same way for you. At all. Your train of thought isn't even 100% committed to the topic of a single thread. BORTAC? Seriously? Good freaking luck, and the reason you need those pesky 3 years as an agent is prolly due to that pesky lack of experience that you have. They need those three pesky years to make you a good federal officer, and to make sure you are 100% committed to the job. Otherwise dudes would come in fail out of their pipeline and quit the BP outright. Why do you think 18X's have a 5 year mandatory commitment? To weed out guys who cannot commit before they ever go to SFAS. Guys who cannot even commit 5 years of their lives in pursuit of a lifetime of brotherhood have no right to even try out.

 

[Brill]

Any SFAS physical & mental training you take up, will also help you become a more capable HUMINTer and a better soldier (if you get delayed or plans change).

Watch the "old" comments! They hit too close to home!

 

[Echo]

Cback, probably doesn't need to be said but you bring up an excellent point. Guess I need to do some more soul searching.

 

[Ajax]

I know, I know, ive got the comomon scenario though, so i wont go into it, no question i can ask hasnt been asked 1k times before and that i dont already know the answer to- ive just got to make the solid mental commitment.

Anyway- I think Ive got a question to go back on course-

So, Im NG, Ive got another SPC thats only been NG, but feels he wants to go AD 18X. Im trying to tell him he is probably better off with NG than AD so he can finish his degree. He is gonna have to put basically the same time in for training ect anyway, why not do it NG and get the college done, and if he still feels he wants AD, then he can always volunteer for deployments ect, or go actual AD without issue.

also, I havent said this to him, but i think its probably better to try it NG first, if for some reason he doesnt make the cut, I will take him back and he can re-evaluate what he wants while still doin a better than line company grunt mission (he is not B4 yet BTW)

Now, somone correct me if im wrong, but if he goes AD 18x contract- and does not make it, what happens to him then? regular line company at the discretion of AD?

Yeah, Needs of the Army. More than likely, the eighty deuce as he will be 11BP and the Army won't have to pay for a PCS move. As far as the training time, it's not basically the same, it is same. If he wants to go active after the Q, he'll have to go to an ascensions board. Usually not a big deal for 18 series, but it is an extra hoop to jump through. You're right about having more options in the Guard though. If he doesn't make it, wife accuses him of domestic violence, gets convicted of narco trafficking, loses a shoulder in a tragic rucking accident, etc, he can go back to Ft Livingroom. Depending on his NG command, he'll also have more control over selecting his MOS after he's selected.

On the other hand, if he signs that AD 18X contract, not being sent down the street could be just the right motivation to make it through a dark time. Sometimes the lack of a safety net is exactly what we need.

 

[TLDR20]

Yeah, Needs of the Army. More than likely, the eighty deuce as he will be 11BP and the Army won't have to pay for a PCS move. As far as the training time, it's not basically the same, it is same. If he wants to go active after the Q, he'll have to go to an ascensions board. Usually not a big deal for 18 series, but it is an extra hoop to jump through. You're right about having more options in the Guard though. If he doesn't make it, wife accuses him of domestic violence, gets convicted of narco trafficking, loses a shoulder in a tragic rucking accident, etc, he can go back to Ft Livingroom. Depending on his NG command, he'll also have more control over selecting his MOS after he's selected.

On the other hand, if he signs that AD 18X contract, not being sent down the street could be just the right motivation to make it through a dark time. Sometimes the lack of a safety net is exactly what we need.

Fear of the 82nd is a huge motivator. It helped me along in the cold/heat/rain/snow of CMK. But an individuals fear of failing is the true motivator for this line of work. I personally would not have been able to face my family and friends if I would have quit.

 

[Ajax]

LM, I'm calling bullshit on your post - it's the same argument, just a different day.
1. He's NG, if he takes a NG SF slot, fulfill or fail there.
2. if he takes an AD SF slot, fulfill or fail there.
3. The degree is personal, unless he's bucking for OCS, then he needs to fulfill his current obligation to the unit he is in.
4. SF is very tight - and the more granular you get (down to Team level) the tighter it gets.
Taking that slot and then bailing for AD is Bravo Foxtrot, and leaves the team screwed for that slot until a new person can make it through the pipeline...

No it's not a new situation - it's the exact same one with a different avatar asking it. I don't care if you are his SL/TL, you are asking the best way to screw a very hard working portion of the 1st SF Regiment so that this kid can get a degree, get trained and then be AD.

The Honor and Integrity of the individual, and you come into question... failure in either or both of those are disqualifiers for service in the 1st SF Regiment.

Don't even think about arguing any more - you dug your friggin hole, put down the e-tool and prepare for more incomming fire.

Damn bro, I leave for a little bit and I come back and you're all pissed off and throwing poo at non-quals and breaking shit. What happened? LOL.

I don't know what arguments were going on previous, but I think some of his q's are valid. From my perspective as team daddy, if USASFC has handed us a Snickers (as in, "not going anywhere for a while?"), I've got no issues with someone taking off to AD for a bit, particularly if he's a young guy. The biggest strength SF has is its experience, particularly when boys bring their outside and pre-18 series experience to the table. If all a kid has in his ruck is a college degree and a Yarborough knife, its going to make it hard to get him up to where he needs to be in one weekend a month, or however often he drills. We send guys off to the AD all the time. For the most part, they come back in a timely fashion. When they come back, they return with bushel full of lessons learned.

The only BF'ing really going on is against the State. MOS schools are paid for out of State budgets. The Q ain't cheap. If I'm running a Guard unit and I suspect a NQ is going to go active upon graduation, I'm going to do everything I can to assist him joining the active force before he eats up half my FY budget. (Look at me, all middle managment savvy. Next I'll be spot checking people's flair).

 

[Etype]

I have a question for you LM. Is this 'soldier' of yours who wants to do all this stuff, is he really you? Sometimes crazy people talk in the third person regarding themselves, or dissociate themselves from themselves- they usually don't make it past the first couple days of selection (psych eval).

Most guys who are in SF, or any of the other ones I'm sure (MARSOC, SEALs, PJs, etc) didn't have 300 hundred questions and an intricate plan. They saw something they wanted and they took it for their own.