ARMY NATIONAL GUARD (ARNG) SPECIAL FORCES (SF) UNITS
- Thread starter Echo
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Having seen you with clothes I assure you no one, aside from LL, wants to see that...
Exactly as I would hope from the elite level members :)
Question for the NG SF guys- Do you guys run on state funds like regular units do? More directly, experiencing the lack of fundng for non-NCOES schools that the rest of us are struggling with?
NG SF units draw from two pots of money; one from the state and the other from USASFC (US Army SF Command.) State is responsible for certain costs while USASFC picks up others(state still controls both to a certain degree) .
At times there are money issues with sending guys to certain schools but it doesnt happen as often, or I should say hasnt happened often that I know of. I have never seen an 18-series guy not be able to attend a SF school due to lack of funds; it may be pushed to the right a class or two but they end up going.
I am sure that will change now that two wars are winding down (I am sure there is somewhere else we will be sent) and the Sec Def wants to cut the budget significantly.
Pre-9/11 this was a huge problem; funding and school availability. State had a nasty habit of withholding money from 3/20 and our finance guy (he's still there I think and older than dirt but smart as hell) was always fighting for what was ours and not state's. Schools...things were bad for the 18 series guys (even the Q) and next to impossible for us support guys beyond MOS and Airborne.
I don't say this to poo-poo on anyone's parade, I've been out for 10 years and really hope things have changed and will continue to be different from I experienced in the 90's, but in the Clinton-era budgets we took a back seat in everything. Conditions were only improved once we started picking up JCET missions, but even then the shift was rather subtle and changes very slow to occur.
Another question. One of my guys went down for a drill for the selection, I guess they have to do 3 drills consecutivly and to standard before they are transfered to that unit. Now, This guy is pretty good, i wont go into his details, but he did 1 drill and then came back with a story that doesnt sound like he would have said/done what he claims, nor whoever is in charge of the process would have said/done. Im starting to believe he is blowing smoke and didnt "pass". Now, that alone I would never hold against the guy, but if he is indeed giving fictional accounts, that i take issue with. As his SL, do I have any right or privelage to contact that unit and find out what exactly transpired, or even does my CO have that authority/capability?
It depends on when he went as to whether they still have records on him. We purge ours after 6 months, unless the individual received an NTR (never to return.)
I believe it is well within your right as his SL to call and ask WTF is up with the guy, after giving the cadre some background info. Most of the NCOs who conduct the SFRE's are professional guys who want the Regiment filled with SF guys, not just guys with SF tabs and as such are generally willing to entertain questions about guys performance or lack thereof.
HTH
Crip
I believe it is well within your right as his SL to call and ask WTF is up with the guy, after giving the cadre some background info. Most of the NCOs who conduct the SFRE's are professional guys who want the Regiment filled with SF guys, not just guys with SF tabs and as such are generally willing to entertain questions about guys performance or lack thereof.
HTH
Crip
We have had this discussion before, you and I; I have had it quite a few times with my TS as well.
There are quite a few of us hoping that USASFC/USASOC saw the error of their collective ways after 9.11 with regards to NGSF and that it wont return to the way it was. There are also quite a few who are working to keep it from occurring. If in fact it does it will be what it is and many of us will leave...and AD SF will get a lot of new faces. I will just go back to the FD and finish my 20 years and retire.
In the beginning no one was sure the NG guys could live up to expectations; after the initial teams successes in A-stan 2002-03 and then ensuing push of ODAs to Iraq there should be little doubt in the commands mind the NG ODAs are as capable as our AD Brethren. Each day we continue to push for increased missions and are hoping Reeder will allow us to take on some of the missions previously not pursued by the NG guys (MLE/SFLE, etc...)
We will see my friend, we will see.
Crip
It does help, greatly, thank you. This was just recently, this past month, so I'm sure they would keep the record. I just wasnt sure if there was some sort of non-disclosure or other reg that wouldnt allow me to know. Again, thank you.
Now getting back to the original topic...
Why do you ask? You hoping for a lower "standard," one where you could make it?
Why do you ask? You hoping for a lower "standard," one where you could make it?
If I may ask.
What does the OML exacly mean? Is it a schedule for the different types of units to attend the whole spectrum of schools/courses that are available to them? (MFF, JTAC etc ?)
I've never seen an OML apply specifically to a unit, but to individuals. I can't speak for how ODAs conduct their OML's, but in my Support Company ours was based off of mission need/ requirement and then a soldier's "status" based on his rank, APFT scores, NCOER's, etc. It could also be a little subjective.
For example, the mechanics and the signal guys would need...we'll say 4 Jumpmasters per detachment for the sake of argument and each detachment currently has 2 qualified JM's. Within those two detachments the commanders would look at their individuals so an E-7 would usually carry more weight than an E-6 for the OML unless the E-7 declines the school (unheard of) or has something where he can't attend (medical profile, personal conflict, another school). Once the detachments figure out their OML's it would go to the HQ element and the company commander, first sergeant, and training NCO would figure out who is going next across the entire company.
As a detachment commander I never personally saw a formal "on paper" OML, it was usually "We have 3 slots for JM school. SIGDET gets two because they're short and the MID gets one. Who are you guys sending?"
Again, the ODAs may run theirs differently, even conventional units may do things differently than we did, but that is how our system worked. It isn't sexy, just "need" + "best candidate."
Roger that, thank You.
Brill
SOF Support
Echo,
What's the point of this thread? You seem to enjoy throwing out HSLD acronyms (and colors) for the cool guy shit. Knock it off. It's BS like this that give us MI guys a bad name within the SOF community. If you have an intelligent question, ask and you'll get an answer (it may or may not be the one you are looking for but I can assure you, your question will be answered) but for Pete's sake, focus! First you ask about various joint units, 18-series, and now you're asking about SF Guard units?
If you have any SPECIFIC questions about MI soldiers supporting joint units, SF Groups, or even the 75th, I suggest you get on mispace.army.mil and look under the SOF section.
Lindy
35P4P
What's the point of this thread? You seem to enjoy throwing out HSLD acronyms (and colors) for the cool guy shit. Knock it off. It's BS like this that give us MI guys a bad name within the SOF community. If you have an intelligent question, ask and you'll get an answer (it may or may not be the one you are looking for but I can assure you, your question will be answered) but for Pete's sake, focus! First you ask about various joint units, 18-series, and now you're asking about SF Guard units?
If you have any SPECIFIC questions about MI soldiers supporting joint units, SF Groups, or even the 75th, I suggest you get on mispace.army.mil and look under the SOF section.
Lindy
35P4P
You'll be expected to put your personal life aside and train and/or deploy with minimal support and maximum motivation and creativity. You'll be expected to think outside the box to accomplish tasks that most AD units would simply check out a vic from TMP or get an O5 signature to take care of. You'll be expected to rat line yourself to training with no promise of compensation. You'll be expected to understand when you put your entire life on hold after receiving WARNO of a deployment only to have it cancelled or moved to the right at the Nth hour and be equally understanding when Group needs three bodies for a no-fail mission and gives you 72 hours to get your shit together. You'll be expected to be technically and tactically competent and to sustain and improve your skills on your own time and your own dime. You'll be held to a higher standard than most AD SF guys. You'll be expected to have undying loyalty to your team and your teammates, and then the company, and then the Regiment. If you find yourself on a team that doesn't expect this of you.....find another team or replace your team sergeant.
Great reply Ajax. That is what I was looking for. I was under the impression that the individual teams did whatever it took to keep themselves prepared as well as each individual soldier taking their own personal time and finances to make sure the team can rely on them. Thank you for the insight.
TLDR20
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I honestly do not believe truer words have been spoken.
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