Bin Laden Raid Book: First-Hand Account Of Navy SEAL Mission Will Be Released On Sept. 11

[Centermass]

dknob? That STFU comment was over the top Brother. Reading the book has nothing to do with anything. It has EVERYTHING to do with the way he went about it and the way it was released. The only authority recognized to clear such material was the original classifying authority in the first place, not some lawyer or publisher. And as of this date, it still hasn't happened. And even if it had, the protocol has to be one of not putting the cart in front of the damn horse (Writing and releasing it first before it has gotten a green light to proceed)

You might have a point regards the Opsec/PerSec issues (even then, though, I'm not sure); but one need not read the book to have a valid opinion on the NDA and COC angle (i.e. whether it should have been written in the first place, sans review, and with the excuse "my boss did it first").

Bingo.

A little off topic, but I'd like to ask a question. I had some very limited exposure to Military SOF and Civilian Intel personnel from various other countries. It did not seem to me they had these issues. They very well might have; as I said, my exposure was brief and limited. But I got the general impression of a greater level of maturity which almost seemed cultural, if not individual (yes, there were some real dicks). Have any of you people seen this kind of issue with the SAS, MI6, 262, 269, G9, etc? If so, then I guess I'm off base. But if not, would that be because their individuals are less inclined for personal reasons (NDA enforcement, etc.) or cultural (i.e. their country doesn't have the fascination with violence and reverence for the military that we do and thus the books wouldn't sell or the stories would not get you laid)? And, any anecdotal evidence of them being the same aside, what is your general impression of the phenomena with them?

Well, let me ask you a very simple question playing from the outside as someone from another country watching and observing all these breaches. "How willing will I be next time I need to read anyone in on something very sensitive in nature that unilaterally affects us both?"

 

[Konan]

A little off topic, but I'd like to ask a question. I had some very limited exposure to Military SOF and Civilian Intel personnel from various other countries. It did not seem to me they had these issues. They very well might have; as I said, my exposure was brief and limited. But I got the general impression of a greater level of maturity which almost seemed cultural, if not individual (yes, there were some real dicks). Have any of you people seen this kind of issue with the SAS, MI6, 262, 269, G9, etc? If so, then I guess I'm off base. But if not, would that be because their individuals are less inclined for personal reasons (NDA enforcement, etc.) or cultural (i.e. their country doesn't have the fascination with violence and reverence for the military that we do and thus the books wouldn't sell or the stories would not get you laid)? And, any anecdotal evidence of them being the same aside, what is your general impression of the phenomena with them?

I already mentioned that Andy McNab, ex-SAS, had to attend a DOD instigated court case to prove that he didn't break OPSEC with his two non-fiction novels: Bravo Two Zero and Immediate Action.
And there's been some real clangers dropped by ex British Secret Service and MI6 operatives over the years.
There's even two quite detailed non-fiction books about undercover operatives who worked in Northern Ireland during the height of the IRA actions.

 

[dknob]

The SAS are full of so many prima donnas writing books.

 

[dknob]

dknob? That STFU comment was over the top Brother. Reading the book has nothing to do with anything. It has EVERYTHING to do with the way he went about it and the way it was released. The only authority recognized to clear such material was the original classifying authority in the first place, not some lawyer or publisher. And as of this date, it still hasn't happened. And even if it had, the protocol has to be one of not putting the cart in front of the damn horse (Writing and releasing it first before it has gotten a green light to proceed)

You are right. Edited.

I get heated sometimes. And condemning the SEAL to life in prison is over the top.

 

[Desperado]

Thanks for the eye openers. I guess my subjective perception of "maturity" was wrong.

Since it's off topic, if the mood strikes me, I will conduct my own research as to how the various markets received those books. My guess (which may be just as wrong as my subjective perception), is that the books had a relatively greater reception/sales in the U.S. market than they did in their home country. Nevertheless, if anyone already knows off the top of their head, I'd like to hear about it (PM if we're too far astray here).

 

[Konan]

The SAS are full of so many prima donnas writing books.

It's amazing how many gifted authors have served in the SAS isn't it.

 

[Konan]

Thanks for the eye openers. I guess my subjective perception of "maturity" was wrong.

Since it's off topic, if the mood strikes me, I will conduct my own research as to how the various markets received those books. My guess (which may be just as wrong as my subjective perception), is that the books had a relatively greater reception/sales in the U.S. market than they did in their home country. Nevertheless, if anyone already knows off the top of their head, I'd like to hear about it (PM if we're too far astray here).

Some of the books probably never made it to the US market.
Whilst the MOD, families and other unit members may sometimes get upset by what has, or hasn't been written in certain Brit military non-fiction books, the general attitude, even from other soldiers, is likely to be: "Who gives a shit."

The more important thing, in my humble opinion, is that the ex-British soldiers and undercover operatives, haven't had their real identities plastered all over the papers, TV and Internet by the Brit media.
Even when their real names are known.

 

[JackMurphyRGR]

Life in prison?
Are you serious ?

I think any further comments on this topic should be reserved for anybody who read the book.

Fact of the matter is the book is completely innocent - I read it in less then two days and even went back to skim over the material. He talks about his life in the SEALs, his time in Green Team which doesn't disclose much of anything about the training other then climbing up a caving ladder when you fuck up. He never mentions troop strength, never refers to the squadrons by any color designation, doesn't even mention any stealth helicopters, doesn't even talk about the Chinook shoot down a couple of months after the raid. He keeps it simple and to the point - that the bin Laden raid was just like any typical raid throughout Afgh/Pakistan. He doesn't talk about the ISI, he doesn't talk about any Pakistani doctor working for the CIA, the only CIA mention he has is in incredible praise to a lady who was working the bin Laden case since 2007. The guy is very likeable, hes not arrogant or egotistical, and he's humble.

Yeah he broke his NDA, but leaking classified information? The government could nitpick the entire book and they wouldn't have a case against him. The DOD and the arm chair commandos behind the keyboards are now just trying to save face because the book turned out to be incredibly innocent. More-so then books like KBL, Wasdin's book, and Blaber's book, etc.

I have nothing else to add.. if you didn't read the book, (fine.. edited).

You have no idea what kind of shit storm Matt set off. Did you know that the media is currently scrambling behind the scenes to ID the hot shot female CIA agent that Matt references in his book. It might take them some time, but they will identify her and it probably won't be more than a couple weeks before they do. This is the kind of second and third order effects that publishing a book like this has.

 

[alibi]

You have no idea what kind of shit storm Matt set off. Did you know that the media is currently scrambling behind the scenes to ID the hot shot female CIA agent that Matt references in his book. It might take them some time, but they will identify her and it probably won't be more than a couple weeks before they do. This is the kind of second and third order effects that publishing a book like this has.

Wouldn't that ruin her cover and force her out of her career if they accomplish that?

 

[Desperado]

Wouldn't that ruin her cover and force her out of her career if they accomplish that?

That's possible. On the other hand, if there are any name-dropping Belt Way insiders who fancy themselves as connected, and who knew about her, or knew someone who knew someone who knew about her, and if they didn't like her, they would just say a bunch of shit about how "every one knew who she worked for" and "she wasn't really clandestine" and "look at me, I'm cool and I know shit." In that case, it's okay if she's outed; because cool people said it didn't matter.

 

[JackMurphyRGR]

If I had written a book one year after Operation Just Cause, detailing the missions that I was involved in, I would have spent the rest of my adult life behind bars.

Secret, Top secret, NDA's, and OPSEC don't mean shit anymore.

To this day, I still haven't told my family jack shit about what I did or didn't do. Why? Because I agreed not to and I was told not to.

Just because one group or one person already opened their yap about shit, does not mean "you" get a pass for doing the same later on down the road.

You want to serve in a unit that requires you to at least have a secret clearance? That means that EVERYTHING you do is to be considered "secret" in regard to training and actual operations.

I hope they make an example out of this guy and they put him away for the rest of his life. Nobody but his own sorry ass endangered him and his family.

I also have to disagree with this as it is simply factually wrong. Everything you do while maintaining a Secret or Top Secret clearance is not classified. Not everything is OPSEC and I think that the military could do a better job explaining what information is OPSEC and what isn't because a lot of people run around thinking that every bit of information somehow relates to OPSEC. I'm not trying to excuse Matt, but NDA's also need to be refined. This was my experience, when I left Ranger Battalion I had to sign an NDA and when I asked about it I was simply told that all the OPSEC stuff that I was always told not to talk about is still OPSEC and I still can't talk about it after I sign the NDA. Roger that, but when it comes to specifics I can see how this can get confusing. I was never given a copy of the NDA so I can't reference it to see what kind of information I'm not supposed to talk about. Again, no excuses but the military side of the house can do some work in clarifying things. Another example, I was never asked to sign an NDA when I left Special Forces. Personally, I don't take this as a de facto permission to run my mouth about sensitive shit. For me this isn't about what is on a piece of paper anyway, it's about not jeopardizing ongoing operations and active duty personnel, but others will see this situation as a green light to write the next "explosive tell-all."

 

[goon175]

Now that I am slightly wiser, I can see how misconstrued what the average Ranger thinks OPSEC is. I don't think the leadership who can actually tell the difference says anything to change their mind as too much OPSEC is always better than not enough.

 

[surgicalcric]

...I was never asked to sign an NDA when I left Special Forces...

You should have signed one when you signed into/in-processed your BN at the Legion.

 

[Desperado]

Everything you do while maintaining a Secret or Top Secret clearance is not classified. Not everything is OPSEC and I think that the military could do a better job explaining what information is OPSEC and what isn't because a lot of people run around thinking that every bit of information somehow relates to OPSEC.

While I agree with you as a general principle, I think that is the reason for pre-clearance in the first place. They don't want us deciding what is and what is not OpSec. If things are working the way they should, we don't know what's okay because there is shit we don't NTK. So, let *them* decide before we publish. Even if their reasons are arbitrary, capricious, an abuse of discretion or otherwise not in accordance with law, it is still their call, and we can litigate that call later, if we choose. But it is not our place to try and decipher it. We could write "The Hobbit" and it should get cleared first, just in case their is some innuendo that "they" think could be inferred by the bad guys. In reality, they'd probably expedite it if you tell them its a kids book unrelated to your service or experience. Nevertheless, it's their call.

 

[Centermass]

On the other hand, if there are any name-dropping Belt Way insiders who fancy themselves as connected, and who knew about her, or knew someone who knew someone who knew about her, and if they didn't like her, they would just say a bunch of shit about how "every one knew who she worked for" and "she wasn't really clandestine" and "look at me, I'm cool and I know shit."

Not for nothing, but this has got to be the longest sentence ever posted.

 

[JackMurphyRGR]

You should have signed one when you signed into/in-processed your BN at the Legion.

The only NDA I signed in SF was regarding some specific training I participated in.

 

[Centermass]

The only NDA I signed in SF was regarding some specific training I participated in.

Then your security manager must have been the same one Bradley Manning had.....

 

[JackMurphyRGR]

We had a security manager!?!? Ever pull Staff Duty and go around opening doors to see how many are unlocked? What a joke.

 

[Centermass]

We had a security manager!?!? Every pull Staff Duty and go around opening doors to see how many are unlocked? What a joke.

Different animal Brother. SM as in Personnel and Information (not physical) as designated by DSEC's, G-2's and S-2's.

 

[Konan]

You have no idea what kind of shit storm Matt set off. Did you know that the media is currently scrambling behind the scenes to ID the hot shot female CIA agent that Matt references in his book. It might take them some time, but they will identify her and it probably won't be more than a couple weeks before they do. This is the kind of second and third order effects that publishing a book like this has.

I was kind of hoping she was really a he and that M. Owen was in his way, protecting the agent.
If not, then I see that M. Owen has indeed opened his mouth far too widely.
(Unless she is about to retire and she plans to write her own memoirs, which would surely be worth more than M. Owen's.)
If one can imagine it, it can happen.