Brexit - (AKA...should they stay or should they go now?)

@Rapid, that might be the most baseless post I have read here in a long long time. It is just as ridiculous to assume the other way. What something like that does show is that a whole shit load of people didn't understand what this really was.

Most of what I read from people who KNOW what they are talking about, says that leaving is stupid. I'll go with those people. Poor English, getting the shaft from old idiots over false immigration concerns... Seems rather similar to what we have going on here.
 
They may well end up going from Great Britain to Little England.

I'll take a sovereign little England (and let's not forget Wales who voted leave too) over a "Great" Britain under the thumb of the EU.

And when push comes to shove, Scotland would benefit far more from being part of the UK than a shitty EU that's slowly crumbling away.
 
@Rapid, that might be the most baseless post I have read here in a long long time. It is just as ridiculous to assume the other way. What something like that does show is that a whole shit load of people didn't understand what this really was.

Most of what I read from people who KNOW what they are talking about, says that leaving is stupid. I'll go with those people. Poor English, getting the shaft from old idiots over false immigration concerns... Seems rather similar to what we have going on here.

The EU parliament is unelected and European countries have vastly different cultures. They can collaborate for their mutual interests, but the concept of the EU was a little ambitious.

Countries like... say, Greece, get a lot more economic benefit than the UK ever would. I think there will be short term market losses because of uncertainty. England will recover and be just fine, and be a sovereign nation again.
 
@Rapid, that might be the most baseless post I have read here in a long long time. It is just as ridiculous to assume the other way. What something like that does show is that a whole shit load of people didn't understand what this really was.

Most of what I read from people who KNOW what they are talking about, says that leaving is stupid. I'll go with those people. Poor English, getting the shaft from old idiots over false immigration concerns... Seems rather similar to what we have going on here.

Baseless? Other than my own first hand experience of living here! I wouldn't say it was ridiculous unless I honestly felt that. I know the "Leave" voterbase pretty damn well, and they are passionate about the issue, with most people being at the very least aware of what it would trigger. Not all of them are FULLY informed about the issue (though the remain side are far worse), but they fucking know what it means to leave the EU!

The people who you THINK 'know what they're talking about' are biased towards the interests of the banks, the financial sector, career politicians, major corporations, etc. The common, indigenous British people were losing their country while it was being whored out to corporate interest, until they finally said, "Enough".

And false immigration concerns? It's taking a lot of effort to restrain myself from insulting you and your total, ignorant disrespect of what's been going on in so many European countries.
 
If anyone drove those trends, it's most likely kids or people who voted remain without ever asking what the implications of leaving would be.

To suggest that most people who voted leave didn't understand what it would mean is just plain ridiculous.
Maybe, maybe not.

'I really regret my vote': The Brexit voters who wish they'd voted In

edit to add that I completely respect the fact that you live there and have obviously made a well-informed choice. I fear that might not be the case for many, though. On both sides, to be fair.

I'm sure that England will be fine once things calm down. Y'all are as tough as boot leather. ;)
 
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The one major fallout from this will be what it means for the United Kingdom as a whole. Northern Ireland and Scotland both voted to Remain but due to the UK as a whole, their votes meant fuck all.

The Scottish have already signalled their intent to have another referendum on independence, while there's calls for a border poll in Northern Ireland.

They may well end up going from Great Britain to Little England.
Which isn't bad thing.
 
I'll take a sovereign little England (and let's not forget Wales who voted leave too) over a "Great" Britain under the thumb of the EU.

And when push comes to shove, Scotland would benefit far more from being part of the UK than a shitty EU that's slowly crumbling away.

Were you not sovereign yesterday?
Baseless? Other than my own first hand experience of living here! I wouldn't say it was ridiculous unless I honestly felt that. I know the "Leave" voterbase pretty damn well, and they are passionate about the issue, with most people being at the very least aware of what it would trigger. Not all of them are FULLY informed about the issue (though the remain side are far worse), but they fucking know what it means to leave the EU!

The people who you THINK 'know what they're talking about' are biased towards the interests of the banks, the financial sector, career politicians, major corporations, etc. The common, indigenous British people were losing their country while it was being whored out to corporate interest, until they finally said, "Enough".

And false immigration concerns? It's taking a lot of effort to restrain myself from insulting you and your total, ignorant disrespect of what's been going on in so many European countries.

Well keep on keeping on friend. You consistently wade in on issues concerning America that you have no business in, so I will feel just fine wading in to yours.
 
Were you not sovereign yesterday?


Well keep on keeping on friend. You consistently wade in on issues concerning America that you have no business in, so I will feel just fine wading in to yours.
Sovereign? Is that a serious question? Do you know how much influence the EU has over its member states?
 
I noted this in an article here today; " In legal terms, the British government is not bound by the result of the referendum..." But I'd like to see them try it on and go against the will of the people. I think the whole episode is a wakeup call to the EU generally to get their house in order.
 
I'll take a sovereign little England (and let's not forget Wales who voted leave too) over a "Great" Britain under the thumb of the EU.

And when push comes to shove, Scotland would benefit far more from being part of the UK than a shitty EU that's slowly crumbling away.

I just think it's crazy how the breakup of the UK is now a distinct possibility as a result of a referendum that David Cameron really didn't need to call. It'll go down in history as the single biggest fuck up of his political career.

As an aside, pretty amusing to see the politicians from the "Leave" side already starting to step back from their promises. 350 million quid for the NHS a week? Eh actually maybe we shouldn't have said that. An end to free movement? Well not necessarily. Juncker wants to start negotiations straight away to facilitate the Brexit? Leave politicians begin saying there's no need for haste.

It's as if they didn't expect to win or something and now that they have won, they don't really know what they're supposed to do.
 
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I have to be honest though, I really don't get the whole "sovereignty" uproar... Northern Ireland, Scotland and Gibraltar all voted to remain in the EU and their wishes have been completely ignored.

Surely the people of those countries deserve to have their wish carried out? Or is it ok to be under the thumb of Westminster but not Europe?
 
The Scottish have already signalled their intent to have another referendum on independence, while there's calls for a border poll in Northern Ireland.

The Scottish people, or the leaders of the succeed mob who lost the year before last? Is there actual appetite for yet another arse tearing exit referendum? I'm assuming people are getting pretty sick and tired of it by now.
 
Were you not sovereign yesterday?

lol.

And while it's unlikely that any country can ever be truly 100% sovereign these days, we are much closer to that figure without the EU.

Well keep on keeping on friend. You consistently wade in on issues concerning America that you have no business in, so I will feel just fine wading in to yours.

My shitposting is better than yours.
 
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I just think it's crazy how the breakup of the UK is now a distinct possibility as a result of a referendum that David Cameron really didn't need to call. It'll go down in history as the single biggest fuck up of his political career.

Possible? Maybe. Likely? Not so sure.

When Scotland, Gibraltar, etc voted to remain it was in the context of remaining within the EU and the UK. If they had to vote again and choose between the EU or the UK, you can see how that might be different.

As an aside, pretty amusing to see the politicians from the "Leave" side already starting to step back from their promises. 350 million quid for the NHS a week? Eh actually maybe we shouldn't have said that. An end to free movement?

To be fair I think they used that figure as an example of what they could do with the money saved. Did they ever guarantee it would be split up like that? Also, they're not saying it won't be. Just that it can't be guaranteed, and almost nothing ever can be guaranteed in politics -- when other people meddle.

It's as if they didn't expect to win or something and now that they have won, they don't really know what they're supposed to do.

They probably didn't expect the public to vote the way they did, that's true. Not necessarily a bad thing though, because now it can be taken really seriously.
 
What was the final straw that pissed off the electorate?
Immigration?

I'm delighted.. Them fucking camel jockeys AKA choudry is shitting himself.. Now they can be fucked out without Brussels interfering !

We are (were) attempting to fuck out a known isis fundraiser but it is against his fucking human rights!
 
I have to be honest though, I really don't get the whole "sovereignty" uproar... Northern Ireland, Scotland and Gibraltar all voted to remain in the EU and their wishes have been completely ignored.

Surely the people of those countries deserve to have their wish carried out? Or is it ok to be under the thumb of Westminster but not Europe?

Most of those separation votes use Québec to justify their "sovereignty". But they continually lose and recently they have the lowest support EVER. And it's cause it's just the older generation that are behind it. Continously demanding referendums are a waste of time and money.

As for the younger generation of British that voted to remain, they are just like the rest of their generation in the West; completely uneducated morons. They don't even know what the EU is and are brainwashed into believing some worldwide socialist utopia is good for everyone. Same morons that wear Che shirts and love Putin. They are the same morons that voted for our current Libtard government whom supported the remain side.


Brits Are All Googling "What is the EU?" - Hours After Leaving It
 
@Freefalling
Points well taken. But I think the big difference between now and the WWII timeframe is that we truly have a global economy, no one lives in a bubble. England had valid concerns about immigration under the EU, but my understanding is that Cameron had negotiated an immigration reform deal if they stayed. But in the sound bite world we live in, guess what everyone in England was googling this morning? :rolleyes:

"That confusion over what Brexit might mean for the country's economy appears to have been reflected across the United Kingdom on Thursday. Google reported sharp upticks in searches not only related to the ballot measure but also about basic questions concerning the implications of the vote. At about 1 a.m. Eastern time, about eight hours after the polls closed, Google reported that searches for "what happens if we leave the EU" had more than tripled."

The British are frantically Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

Our passport applications have quadrupled all from UK citizens.
 
Most of those separation votes use Québec to justify their "sovereignty". But they continually lose and recently they have the lowest support EVER. And it's cause it's just the older generation that are behind it. Continously demanding referendums are a waste of time and money.

As for the younger generation of British that voted to remain, they are just like the rest of their generation in the West; completely uneducated morons. They don't even know what the EU is and are brainwashed into believing some worldwide socialist utopia is good for everyone. Same morons that wear Che shirts and love Putin. They are the same morons that voted for our current Libtard government whom supported the remain side.


Brits Are All Googling "What is the EU?" - Hours After Leaving It

That could just as likely be people who voted to leave....
 
@TLDR20 no doubt it was a mixed pack that ignorantly voted for both sides. If they don't know what the EU is, I doubt they know what being a strong and independent UK will do to benefit them. Voting a certain way because the media told them to or some celebrity told them. We are screwed as a society, upcoming generations don't know how to have independent thought and would rather "protest" in the streets or on social media.

Brussels is out of touch of the average European. This is an excellent summation of why this went the way it did. Rex Murphy always tells it like it is, eloquently and without pulling punches.

Rex Murphy: Results of the Brexit referendum is a rebuke to Western elites

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Rex Murphy
Friday, Jun. 24, 2016

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Leave supporters on Westminster Bridge during an EU referendum campaign stunt in London. AP Photo/Matt Dunham

It’s an old concept I grant you, but nonetheless worth restating. If you want to know what people really think and feel about an issue, have them vote on it, have a referendum. It’s a principle we might want to hang on to in Canada, if it comes to changing how we vote. But for now the most firm illustration of its wisdom is the just-known results of the Brexit referendum.

The often-ignored, sometimes quite rudely deplored British people have spoken and, to the horror of enlightened opinion, respectable party leaders, the ever-guiding liberal intelligentsia, have decided they don’t want “in” the European Union. The vote comes as a mighty shock to broad-minded continentalists and supranationalists everywhere, but particularly the high elites of British politics. The Guardian’s readership will need special help — grief counsellors are already overwhelmed.

The EU vote is the most dramatic illustration to date of how the “guiding elites” of many Western countries have lost the fealty and trust of their populations. Of the gap between ordinary citizens, facing the challenges of daily life, and the swaddled, well-off and pious tribes of those who govern them, and increasingly govern them with a mixture of moralistic superiority and witless condescension.

But a decade ago, “Euroskeptics” were a slender group, derided by their betters as xenophobes and bigots, a splinter faction of regressive nationalists and illiberal tribalists. That, at least, was the approved version from on high. And from those smug heights, they dismissed with icy contempt the concerns of ordinary people that the “EU project” was draining their national identity, dissolving centuries-old democratic systems, and forcing their submission to an alien, unelected and unaccountable Brussels super-government.

Above all, they dismissed concerns about changing the nature of their country by the new rules on immigration, and the abolition of all borders between the ancient states of Europe.

The Europe-firsters of the British establishment — journalistic, academic and political — were essentially taking the hoary line of Gertrude Stein about Oakland — “There is no there, there” — and telling the broad mass of one of the oldest, most successful nation-states the world has ever seen, that such was Great Britain.

Events in Libya, and Syria, and the mass migration from the Middle East flowing from the disasters of those and other countries, continued global Islamic terror, the gruesome attacks on London’s streets, and in Paris and Brussels, too, accelerated and intensified the concern and alarm of those who saw their country drifting away from them, losing its coherence, shedding its core identity.

There are lessons here for the U.S., particularly now with the emergence of Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders in the presidential campaign. Barack Obama shocked a great slice of the American public with his executive order (since suspended by the Supreme Court) — a pure fiat from the Oval Office — to exempt five million illegal aliens, what Time magazine described as “the largest single immigration action in modern American history.” He did this with a wave of his imperious pen. It was a decree less fit for a president than an emperor, a clear flight of that “Caesarism” which all good Obamaphiles prefer to see only in demon Trump.

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Matt Dunham / Associated PressLeave supporters hold flags as they stand on Westminster Bridge during an EU referendum campaign stun
It was effected without the consultations and accommodations with a concerned electorate that should always precede great changes in a nation’s character and circumstance. Nothing gave more of an uplift to Trump and Sanders (they’ve both been riding the same wave of distrust of the governing class) than Obama’s highhanded and supercilious dismissal of working-class worries on immigration.

Obama also bears not a little blame — if blame is the word — for the Brexit vote. His inactions in Syria, his famous declaration of the “red line” and the retreat from it, coupled with the mess of his (and Hillary Clinton’s) intervention in Libya, are heavily responsible for the great migratory convulsions of the Middle East.

To cap things off, during his trip to Britain during the referendum, Obama warned that if the country were to leave the EU, in any future trade deal it “would be at the back of the queue.” This was seen both as interference and an insult. The words of a Telegraph columnist capture the sentiment this intrusion provoked: “(T)he condescending tones that Mr. Obama used (may produce) the reverse effect” from the one intended.

Indeed. There is a price for governing from on high, for being detached from voters’ expressed concerns and anxieties, and for characterizing those concerns and anxieties always as small-minded, or proceeding only from anti-liberal biases, or xenophobia and racism. Might it not also be possible that people in turbulent times, in an uncertain economy, increasingly apprehensive that their leaders are not listening to them and do not care to listen, will finally decline to follow those leaders? David Cameron has just now learned that the hard way. He has announced his resignation as prime minister.

And if enough Americans in the coming election start to feel that Washington has “evolved” into a home-grown version of Brussels, a regulation- and executive-order driven, citizen-detached administration, those citizens may choose Trump for their president. Not so much because they see him as “saviour” but as a rebuke to those “better” leaders who so scorn him. The Brexit vote is an item in a larger wave of change, one that has immediate relevance for most Western democracies.

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Rex Murphy: Results of the Brexit referendum is a rebuke to Western elites
 
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