Females in Ranger School

[goon175]

Ive been hearing the rumors...and here is a little opinion column on the issue. Neither the CoS nor the SMA have a Tab, so I'm not sure how they get off pushing this. Neither does secdef...neither does potus...etc. etc....

http://weaponsman.com/?p=2814

 

[Karoshi]

I wonder, what is the success rate of women who attend "Sapper" school. If there is not a high success rate there, why even bother trying to push this through? I can only shake my head at the comments I have seen recently from the CoS and SMA.

Odierno noted that nine out of ten senior infantry officers have graduated from Ranger school and wear the Ranger tab on their uniforms. Not allowing women to earn their own tab could hinder their infantry careers, Odierno said. "As we look at our senior infantry officers, 90 percent of our senior officers are Ranger qualified. If we determine that we're going to allow women to go into infantry and be successful, they're probably at some time going to have to go to Ranger School," Odierno said. "We have not made that decision but it's a factor that I've asked them to take a look at."

 

[AWP]

Odierno is a tool. That he has a fourth star, much less is the CSA, is hideous.

I love the "9 out of 10" comment because if those numbers are true then it is essentially invalidating IOBC and the MCCC.

 

[Karoshi]

That was taken from the military.com article I read about an hour ago. Link

 

[JohnnyBoyUSMC]

I don't know what the big deal is to let women suddenly be in these combat roles and schools all of a sudden. Anyone who's worked a infantry/combat MOS job will tell you women (not all but for the most part) simply are not built from a physiological standpoint for the strenuousness of the job, related schools, and subsequent training. It's as FUCKING SIMPLE as that. I could go on into more detail, but anyone that's humped a pack weighing over 50 lbs for more than 5 miles up and down some steep ass hills will say the same thing.

My brother in law has been a Army medic for years. When I broached the subject of later going SOF after my college is behind me, he told me to be prepared for some long ass, slow as FUCK run's at jump school cause the pace set is by the slowest one up front, and is almost always a female in a MOS like cook or something. Don't feel I really need to say more on that, cept I feel this just isn't the time or place for this sort of silliness.

 

[Marauder06]

Maybe it's different now, but when I went through jump school the pace was set by the guy in front of the formation, and that was the the company commander, the First Sergeant, or our platoon TAC. Yeah the runs were slow but I got the impression that they were to help identify people who were injured than a gut check.

 

[JohnnyBoyUSMC]

Maybe it's different now, but when I went through jump school the pace was set by the guy in front of the formation, and that was the the company commander, the First Sergeant, or our platoon TAC. Yeah the runs were slow but I got the impression that they were to help identify people who were injured than a gut check.

Can't say from experience, just what my brother in law told me last Christmas during a visit. Sorry if I derailed slightly, was just giving a example as to the idea that while people may think allowing women into every aspect of the military is a good thing, it isn't, not out of some sexist ideology but out of biological and psychological factors.

 

[AWP]

I went to jump school in '93 and the females were always in the front. Whether that was "All women to the front" or "short people to the front, tall to the rear" I don't recall but I suspect the latter. Runs were 9 minute miles +/- 5 seconds. Yeah, I was "that guy" who took a watch to PT and wasn't caught.

 

[Worldweaver]

Exactly right, "short people to the front". As was stated elsewhere, they will water down the requirements and time hacks prior to Women starting Ranger School so that when it does happen it won't appear as if the standards are being changed for their benefit.

 

[0699]

I wonder, what is the success rate of women who attend "Sapper" school. If there is not a high success rate there, why even bother trying to push this through? I can only shake my head at the comments I have seen recently from the CoS and SMA.

Odierno noted that nine out of ten senior infantry officers have graduated from Ranger school and wear the Ranger tab on their uniforms. Not allowing women to earn their own tab could hinder their infantry careers, Odierno said. "As we look at our senior infantry officers, 90 percent of our senior officers are Ranger qualified. If we determine that we're going to allow women to go into infantry and be successful, they're probably at some time going to have to go to Ranger School," Odierno said. "We have not made that decision but it's a factor that I've asked them to take a look at."

Maybe they could come up with a different tab for women...

 

[Boon]

They should change the tab all together and call it the Infantry or Patrolling Tab

 

[RustyShackleford]

When the standards are the same across the board, fine. But until then...

 

[Loki]

Same PT, same combat load, same standards? As a former grunt; get to the front, ruck up Suzy, move out, get some! Hummmm

http://www.military.com/news/article/Ranger-school-considers-going-co-ed.html

 

[JohnnyBoyUSMC]

Same PT, same combat load, same standards? As a former grunt; get to the front, ruck up Suzy, move out, get some! Hummmm

http://www.military.com/news/article/Ranger-school-considers-going-co-ed.html

question is, aside from some Olympic style body builder women and some that have just a insane amount of stamina, how many females can they expect to send through and pass? Again, this isn't a sexist thing, it's simply how women are built body wise and mental wise. I'm all for equality and such, but truth is harsh standards are in place to weed out those that don't make a cut and those that do, it's not fair but it ensures the best candidates are chosen. Females, overall, I'm just not seeing a high number making it through course like Ranger School, Marine SOI, SFAS, etc....

Another thing I think should be brought up to mind is this: can the already squeamish American public really take all this? If one were to follow the obvious logic, would mean the military as a whole in the near future would be opening up not only schools but combat MOS that are (right now) restricted to males and open them to females. How long before the American public, which is already risk aversive, hardly knows there are wars on, and cringes and screams "pull the troops out" at the first footage of combat on tv, will start going insane at the site of large numbers of women dieing in combat situations, coming home in flag draped coffins?

I'll be one of the first to admit I'm a protective male, it's a male thing and a warrior thing to protect your woman and your family, it's biology. The American public as it is can barely stand seeing it's son's coming back in the number they have wounded or KIA, let alone their precious daughters.

 

[goon175]

JohnyboyUSMC: word on the street is that the females attending Ranger School WILL pass, at or above the current rate of males passing.

 

[JohnnyBoyUSMC]

JohnyboyUSMC: word on the street is that the females attending Ranger School WILL pass, at or above the current rate of males passing.

hey if they can do it, good on em, they have clearly made a lot of us eat shit. my older sister is in the army, and if you knew her well enough you'd say "Ranger School? that won't pose any challenge to her", I just don't see majority wise a lot of females being able to live up to current standards, though honestly I hope I'm proven wrong!

 

[goon175]

I just don't see majority wise a lot of females being able to live up to current standards

Exactly.

 

[JohnnyBoyUSMC]

Exactly.

So your saying the standards are being lowered for female students or that we have to "adapt" to female students coming into these courses and that standards will be set diff for them?

 

[18C4V]

I think the standards will be lowered or there will be two standards (male or female) or even a stand alone Ranger class or a platoon of female RS students.

 

[Boon]

Or no more MREs while in the patrol base, but home cooked meals.


Too soon?