Females in Ranger School

I was talking with an Army Reserve officer (Engineer Branch) who has been thorugh Ranger School and he had an interesting take on it. His opinion is that RS brought this on themselves by moving away from being a samll-unit tactics school and promoting itself as the Army's premier leadership school. Now that women are being placed in Infantry leadership positions, they have made it tough to argue that they shouldn't be allowed to attend. Of course the disagreement is still there about the mandatory passing rates and lowered standards, but the rest is an interesting premise. Thoughts?

A second argument that I have seen brought up time and again in regards to women serving in Infantry, SOF, etc. is the gym aspect. The explosion of CrossFit in popularity and the athletic women it produces has led many people to point at top CF women as being examples of women who would theoretically have little difficulty with the demands of being an Infantry or SOF unit. I think it's interesting that if a man performs well in the gym, it's almost a detriment at times as he is expected to prove out his gym performance in the field or risk being labeled a "pretty boy" who only can perform in a gym environment. Yet, when women perform well in the gym the attitude is that they are proof of the fact that women could breeze thorugh any physical challenge a training cadre could throw at them. The idea that being good at CF or whatever else is indicative of an ability to handle the day in and day out beating your body and mind takes at certain training courses is laughable. The gym may have some carryover to success in these courses, but it is far from a concrete indicator. It's indicative of the double standard in place, whether people admit to it or not, that women are almost handed a graduation certificate by some before even attending a course because they have a fast Fran time, while men who perform the same or better in the gym are looked at that much harder to see if they can hold up outside the controlled environment of a gym.
 
I don't even know if its so much about there ability to do it, but when you think about what has happened to all these co-ed support units (pregnancies, sexual harrasment, etc.) we can't have that in combat arms. It's one thing if the NCOIC is out on maternity leave in the 123 quartermaster battalion and some supply orders get messed up, the worst that will happen is some longer work days. In the case of combat arms, it will put peoples lives at risk. That, and you just have the general dynamic of men and women working in close proximity for long periods of time, romances will naturally generate, which will effect the combat readiness of of that squad or platoon or w/e. The average females ability to keep up physically is only one slice of the pie when it comes to the overall issues that are going to rise from this
 
Integrated units

Personal anecdote to add to this: I've served with 2 units that are male-only, and 2 that are integrated. In the non-integrated units, the usual male dynamic was present and had to be dealt with, but there wasnt really much of a problem. In one of the integrated units, there was a big fraternization problem that I dont think was really addressed. Married SNCOs messing around with junior NCOs and whatnot. The command didnt seem to do much about it. The other integrated unit got along just fine, although I think that may have been because it was smaller and had better leadership overall (It was also a higher echelon unit so that may have contributed). I would hope that any ranger qualified women would be mature and capable enough to deal with this kind of stuff.
 
Asked an instructor a year or so ago about his view on the issue, and his answer was pretty solid.

- "Every day I come to work with a new plate of shit I have to eat. I don't too much care what's between your legs or what you do in your off time. As long as my plate of shit doesn't get larger, I am content to stay in my lane."

Equality in every sense of the word, not just what's comfortable. In a perfect world a seamless integration without compromise in standards, principles, or effectiveness should be the status quo; however, I fear that will not be the case. In this case there is a very high price for failure.
 
I just hope I'm in the first female class. Perhaps their focus will be on them and have less "who the fuck is that old guy?".

Regardless, they'll be peered out. The shitty thing is if thry're allowed to attend RS, you WILL see female 35Ps serving as SOT-As (V-coded billets have prevented it previously).
 
You also have to think, combat arms and schools like RS are a brotherhood and boy's only club for the most part. I get as warriors we're all supposed to be mature and act like professionals, but you have to think that there will still be a good number of individuals (from instructors to fellow students) who are gonna have a "fuck this chick" attitude and try in their own small way to make em look bad/fail the course. I'm not saying it's right, just saying it's bound to happen, which will lead to plenty of sexism accusations founded or not.
 
I don't even know if its so much about there ability to do it, but when you think about what has happened to all these co-ed support units (pregnancies, sexual harrasment, etc.) we can't have that in combat arms. It's one thing if the NCOIC is out on maternity leave in the 123 quartermaster battalion and some supply orders get messed up, the worst that will happen is some longer work days. In the case of combat arms, it will put peoples lives at risk. That, and you just have the general dynamic of men and women working in close proximity for long periods of time, romances will naturally generate, which will effect the combat readiness of of that squad or platoon or w/e. The average females ability to keep up physically is only one slice of the pie when it comes to the overall issues that are going to rise from this
My experience down range with a unit acting in something very close to a combat role (MP's that shared our mission to clear MSR Tampa of insurgents in the northern section of the multi-national zone) did not have any of that going on. Nor was hygene an issue (they had been there 60 days prior to us and had zero hygene facilities). Not a single female MP was sent home early, though Male MP's and soldiers were for a variety of reasons. All the female MP's returned fire and engaged the enemy when it was appropriate to do so. I can not say the same for some of the infantry guys that were with us. When I got to Arifjan and women had all these special rules to "protect" them, then I saw a shit load of pregnancies and sexual assaults.

So I am reluctant to assume that pregnancies and sexual harrasmet, etc, are forgone conclusions if women are treated as equals and allowed to do the job. This doesn't mean I think they should be in the infantry, I just take most of the excuses of why they can't be in the infantry with a grain of salt. (Iwonder if the UCMJ could get tweaked so that getting pregnat downrange could be considered deriliction of duty or something?)
Reed
 
The only road to success regardless for the political body is to water down standards or sliding scale standards with false positives espoused by all in the command structure. Bottom line; the gear weighs the same, the distance to travel is the same, the obstacles faced are the same and the enemy is the same. Political correctness has no place in the process. If you're in, you're in all the way, Ruck up!
 
I will say that I have seen women in a SOF school and they have not succeeded. They have all had shitty attitudes and were defeatest. This may be a small sampling, but it is what I have witnessed first hand while assessing/grading @ a SOF schoolhouse.
 
They are looking for "equality" with a different standard.

If it happens in Ranger School look for it to happen within SF in the next couple years, especially with SWTG wanting to be a TRADOC School (another great idea brought from the fairy.)
 
This was a topic of discussion as we came out of scout gunnery this week and turned on our phones and saw this article come up. The rumor down here a week ago had been that the Army was going to push 8 females through IBOLC this summer...and then it became ABOLC...which, honestly so far a female could do what we've done and not have any issues. At IBOLC...well it's one big long hump. I don't see how they could send them down here for either because as of right now the 11 and 19 series officer MOSs are not open to women, whereas there are female 13 Series officers, yet extremely few of them.

So my opinion is as such...I'm sure there are females out there that are physically capable of completing Ranger School, but do they know the tactics the OPORDs to be successful...heck are those physically capable females even in the Army?
 
I remember being somewhat impressed with the female West Point cadets in Airborne School. Given nothing was terribly hard there, but they at least didn't seem to be struggling compared to all the other chicks there including the ones that were already commissioned officers. IMO really physically fit women don't generally join the Army. Then again if we start opening up 'prestigious' positions to them maybe they would. As for OPORDS and tactics, if a Pre-Ranger course can get a brand new Private to go straight through Ranger School, I'm sure we can also get officers to pass as well. It's just sad that instead of keeping the standards and letting the few women capable earn their tab, politics will make the Army lower standards so many can be handed it.
 
Here's a good one ...... it's o'dark thirty in the a.m., oporder has begun. What's by the briefing area? Oh, the slit trench. Everyone with a tab knows what i'm talking about, and we have all witnessed the horror during these oporders when people had to go... now put a female in the picture. She has to go during the oporder... do you stop so she can do her business? I tell you what, I'm not missing my hard time ... I can just imagine all the sexual harassment claims that are going to come out of this,"he was looking at me when I was utilizing the slit trench" or " he failed me 'cause I'm a woman" or " he wanted me to perform sexual acts, or he would fail me and that's how I failed." Just imagine this going farther than ranger school and going up the SOF ladder, USASOC, NAVSPEC, MARSOC, AFSOC, all of SOCOM imagine you had to standown a unit because of a possible sexual harassment investigation. Do me a favor... whoever is deciding on this matter, save yourselves the heartache and public ridicule, and have the testicular fortitude to make the right decision, and do not let the public sway your decision....... I'm not carrying tampons because it's a new item on the packinglist efff that...
 
I recall about a year ago, when SgtMaj. Kent was still the top enlisted man in the Corps talking to a group of us at Pendleton, someone straight up asking him if females were gonna get into the infantry, to which he said straight up "it's NOT gonna happen". Now, they are letting females attend Marine Corps SOI. It's a slippery slope we're all on.
 
It's a RUMOR that has run a muck recently and nothing else. The message about the ACoS directing this is not true. There has been NO official announcement or decision regarding their attendance. Weaponsman has jumped the gun based on hearsay and pure speculation. Could it happen? Perhaps, but for now, no.

This is the OFFICIAL word: Women Soldiers are not currently eligible for attendance to the US Army Ranger Course nor are there any plans to open the course to Women Soldiers.
 
It seems to rotate which school/pipeline women will now be allowed into. I seem to remember this one going around about 5 years ago, SF pipeline before that, Marine Recon, and of course who could forget BUDs after a certain movie. I'll believe it when there is actual proof to back it up, or even better pictures of a women getting the award for passing whatever course she went through.
 
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