General Mattis is our new SECDEF

[AWP]

God wrote it and gave it to Mattis.

Might as well, Mattis probably writes stuff and gives it to God.

 

[WasNeverHere]

Any chances he'll role back any of the last 24 years of using the military for a social experimentation laboratory, resulting in open homosexuality and women Rangers?

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Any chances he'll role back any of the last 24 years of using the military for a social experimentation laboratory, resulting in open homosexuality and women Rangers?

Nope.

To add - lots of conversation about those topics in this thread:

Women in Combat Arms/ SOF Discussion

 

[Gunz]

Any chances he'll role back any of the last 24 years of using the military for a social experimentation laboratory, resulting in open homosexuality and women Rangers?

What's done is done. He might be able to draw the line on it for a while, at least until the next "progressive" administration comes in and blows the lid off...but he won't be able to reverse any of this shit no matter how much he may want to privately.

 

[WasNeverHere]

What's done is done. He might be able to draw the line on it for a while, at least until the next "progressive" administration comes in and blows the lid off...but he won't be able to reverse any of this shit no matter how much he may want to privately.

What's fucked can never be unfucked? That's depressing. Hope springs eternal.

 

[Deleted member 2517]

What's fucked can never be unfucked? That's depressing. Hope springs eternal.

I don't consider letting gay men and women serve openly as things being fucked. I would say that's actually in the "unfucked" category.

 

[WasNeverHere]

I don't consider letting gay men and women serve openly as things being fucked. I would say that's actually in the "unfucked" category.

Certainly would make the trenches more interesting. Talk about your foxhole conversions.

 

[DA SWO]

I don't consider letting gay men and women serve openly as things being fucked. I would say that's actually in the "unfucked" category.

As long as they meet the standard.
I am not convinced of that just yet.

 

[WasNeverHere]

As long as they meet the standard.
I am not convinced of that just yet.

The thing no-one wants to say, because it isn't PC, is that the complications to unit cohesion go far beyond women being smaller, weaker, and slower: if Jessica Alba can carry a wounded 200 lb man (+her gear&his), for 5 miles, across rough terrain, in 30 minutes, while shooting 50 bad guys through the eye socket, having her deploy with your team isn't going to cause complications with your wife, with the locals, and among your team members? Bullshit!

The PR nightmare when she's captured would be a national crisis, a 24/7 news cycle, hand-wringing, teeth-gnashing ratings bonanza! The manpower and resources committed to her recovery would be immeasurable, and incomparable to what would be expended for a male counterpart.

You can tell yourself that a woman who looked like Janet Reno, instead, would mesh with the team as well as a man, but that's Bullshit, too. What happens when Janet develops a crush on a team member? How does that detract from unit effectiveness?

Maybe it's okay if Janet's a lesbian? Okay, then, what happens when another female is introduced to the team?

See, all this stuff about women being smaller, weaker, and slower(all true) is just whistling past the grave yard. No-one wants to talk about the real shit, because it isn't PC.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

@82DABN43E1P

Your arguments would be much more readable if you would drop they tired homosexual stereotypes and weak women shots. I was going to take the time to give you specific examples, but I'll let these two paragraphs speak for themselves.

You can tell yourself that a woman who looked like Janet Reno, instead, would mesh with the team as well as a man, but that's Bullshit, too. What happens when Janet develops a crush on a team member? How does that detract from unit effectiveness?

Maybe it's okay if Janet's a lesbian? Okay, then, what happens when another female is introduced to the team?

 

[WasNeverHere]

@82DABN43E1P

Your arguments would be much more readable if you would drop they tired homosexual stereotypes and weak women shots. I was going to take the time to give you specific examples, but I'll let these two paragraphs speak for themselves.

I didn't think I was taking a shot at weak women. If anything, I was taking a shot a people who say, "women are too small, weak, slow..." as if that were the real issue.

As far as homosexual stereotypes, if you mean that I implied that open homosexuality can present the same challenges to unit cohesion as male-female sexual politics, then I plead guilty to being an unreconstructed anachronism. Shot me.

 

[TLDR20]

As long as they meet the standard.
I am not convinced of that just yet.

I know you have been out a while, but I know at least 3 guys in SOF that are gay. They were serving closeted before and were able to come out and be themselves. Gay men and women were serving just fine before, just not openly. There is no different standard for gay people.

 

[WasNeverHere]

I know you have been out a while, but I know at least 3 guys in SOF that are gay. They were serving closeted before and were able to come out and be themselves. Gay men and women were serving just fine before, just not openly. There is no different standard for gay people.

I don't think there should be different physical standards (if that's what you mean). I knew a couple of soldiers I suspected might be gay, back in the dinosaur days. I didn't care. It was their business.

However, I believe fraternization has gotten out of control. And, if the male on male fraternization has or can escalate to the level of the male on female fraternization, then we're on our way to going full Rome.

 

[WasNeverHere]

I know you have been out a while, but I know at least 3 guys in SOF that are gay. They were serving closeted before and were able to come out and be themselves. Gay men and women were serving just fine before, just not openly. There is no different standard for gay people.

To expound...I had a roommate in the service who used to tell me things that he did to his girlfriend that made my skin crawl. I had to ask him to stop talking about it. It was disgusting. Likewise, I worked with a gay guy, who was way too open about his lifestyle. I had to remind him that he was at work, not a disco, and that I didn't want to hear graphic details of his exploits.

When straight people engage in freaky deeds or overshare, is it okay for me to tell them I don't wanna hear about it? Then, why is it "homophobic" of me to expect the same courtesy of a gay guy? Am I really a dinosaur, or has the PC world just lost its damn mind? You already know what I think?

 

[TLDR20]

I don't think there should be different physical standards (if that's what you mean). I knew a couple of soldiers I suspected might be gay, back in the dinosaur days. I didn't care. It was their business.

However, I believe fraternization has gotten out of control. And, if the male on male fraternization has or can escalate to the level of the male on female fraternization, then we're on our way to going full Rome.

What?

It isn't like it is common. Being around gay dudes doesn't make straight guys gay. It isn't contagious.

 

[TLDR20]

To expound...I had a roommate in the service who used to tell me things that he did to his girlfriend that made my skin crawl. I had to ask him to stop talking about it. It was disgusting. Likewise, I worked with a gay guy, who was way too open about his lifestyle. I had to remind him that he was at work, not a disco, and that I didn't want to hear graphic details of his exploits.

When straight people engage in freaky deeds or overshare, is it okay for me to tell them I don't wanna hear about it? Then, why is it "homophobic" of me to expect the same courtesy of a gay guy? Am I really a dinosaur, or has the PC world just lost its damn mind? You already know what I think?

What are you talking about man?

 

[TLDR20]

This is all off topic for Mattis being SECDEF anyways. We can talk about gays in the military somewhere else if you want to start a new thread.

 

[WasNeverHere]

What?

It isn't like it is common. Being around gay dudes doesn't make straight guys gay. It isn't contagious.

That isn't exactly what I meant. But, should everyone wear an armband, indicating their sexual preference? Or, should sexuality just be completely removed from the equation? If soldiers aren't permitted to date, marry each other, or engage in any form of sexual congress with fellow service members, then their sexual preferences are moot.

 

[WasNeverHere]

This is all off topic for Mattis being SECDEF anyways. We can talk about gays in the military somewhere else if you want to start a new thread.

I guess it's strayed a little, but originally, I was responding to the speculation of some commentators that, seeing as the Marines has been most reluctant of the services to cave into pressure to adapt to progressive political whims, having a crusty old-school Marine general as SecDef would halt, or possibly even reverse some of the recent social experiments in the services. I apologize if my query derailed the thread.


[footnote about me: I take very little personally, and have a much better sense of humor than it may appear, when I'm off on a rant]

 

[WasNeverHere]

What are you talking about man?

Thought it was obvious: if I tell a straight couple I don't want to see home movies of their children being born (or made), that's okay, but if I tell my gay neighbors I don't want to see slides from their couples naked yoga class, I'm the asshole.

[lighten up. even Harvey Fierstein thought that was funny]