not the first round , maybe, but 2 and 3 should do the trick... and the HH6 will be putting 9mm into the disabled perp... or the armament may be reversed... there will be hamburger and punctures on a bad guy...
Handgun for home defense
- Thread starter Robert Palmer
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not the first round , maybe, but 2 and 3 should do the trick... and the HH6 will be putting 9mm into the disabled perp... or the armament may be reversed... there will be hamburger and punctures on a bad guy...
pardus
Verified Military
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Can't argue with that! lol
and this is why linoleum and tile are great floor coverings! If you use wood, bar top is the preferred final finish, cleans up really nicely.
pardus
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and this is why linoleum and tile are great floor coverings! If you use wood, bar top is the preferred final finish, cleans up really nicely.
Apart from anything else, DNA is not your friend!
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Once you go to work in closed quarters with most any firearm, people on the receiving end who aren't incapacitated have a tendency to try and unass the AO. This isn't always the case, however, as you indicate, a couple extra rounds can and will do the trick!
Anyone who gives me cause to fire once inside me home gave me cause to fire multiple times.
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I need to get a shotgun.
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Indeed. Anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting twice!
@Centermass is spot on with his post, find out the justification and laws regarding the use of deadly force inside your home. I would also recommend getting some self defense insurance, look at the NRA, I carry a concealed carry policy through them.
@policemedic, yeah 230gr ball. I don't CC my 45, but do have two loaded, in different areas of my house. I like the performance of ball, but will admit that if I carried it, used it for LE work, etc, I would look at some other options, probably 230gr Gold Dot.
ETA: Shotty in the house, a few things I think are somewhat not addressed right/correctly: shotgun takes a lot of proficiency to work, depending on the model. Weight and length are draw backs, especially if you get into a two way gunfight and take a hit/become the one armed gunfighter. Round selections are good but some insight, bird shot is for killing birds, not humans. 00 or 000 buck or an expandable slug would be the best options IMHO. Penetration can be more than many handgun rounds, so I would not view it as a reduced penetration option. High velocity rifles (AR15) actually penetrate less at close range, and generally break apart on impact with interior materials. 55gr soft points is a good option. I would rather just go with a carbine/rifle, however, again if you take a round, if you are trying to locate and secure your kids, have to turn door knobs, or any other one handed work, a pistol with a mounted light, is IMHO, the best option.
$.02
@policemedic, yeah 230gr ball. I don't CC my 45, but do have two loaded, in different areas of my house. I like the performance of ball, but will admit that if I carried it, used it for LE work, etc, I would look at some other options, probably 230gr Gold Dot.
ETA: Shotty in the house, a few things I think are somewhat not addressed right/correctly: shotgun takes a lot of proficiency to work, depending on the model. Weight and length are draw backs, especially if you get into a two way gunfight and take a hit/become the one armed gunfighter. Round selections are good but some insight, bird shot is for killing birds, not humans. 00 or 000 buck or an expandable slug would be the best options IMHO. Penetration can be more than many handgun rounds, so I would not view it as a reduced penetration option. High velocity rifles (AR15) actually penetrate less at close range, and generally break apart on impact with interior materials. 55gr soft points is a good option. I would rather just go with a carbine/rifle, however, again if you take a round, if you are trying to locate and secure your kids, have to turn door knobs, or any other one handed work, a pistol with a mounted light, is IMHO, the best option.
$.02
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I agree, its really dependent on the individual breaking into your home. Pointing a gun is no different. Being gun up, ready to fire, with a round in the chamber, giving commands is a better theroy to go off. At least if the dumbass decides to continue being dumbass, you can pop a round in him.
Also getting into the issue of giving your position away before you have gained a dominant firing position with eyes on the threat, etc.
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policemedic
Verified SWAT
I actually think the whole racking a shotgun thing came from necessity, not a desire to create drama. Most PDs keep shotguns and similar weapons in Condition 3, thus necessitating working the action when you pull it out of the car. That's not to say racking it doesn't get attention--it does. But I don't depend on it to stop a fight.
For most people, I think it's reasonable to have your home defense shotgun/carbine fully loaded and ready to go.
Of course, that assumes the owner can ensure little ones can't touch it, etc.
For most people, I think it's reasonable to have your home defense shotgun/carbine fully loaded and ready to go.
Of course, that assumes the owner can ensure little ones can't touch it, etc.
Not in Texas.
policemedic
Verified SWAT
Texas is a great state.
Debunked what and by who? The FBI ballistics testing lab would disagree with you on the breaking apart bit.
One of the main reasons that HRT, and most LEA SWAT teams moved to the AR15 platform for an entry weapon, was due to the low material penetration and fragmentation (breaking apart) of the round at close range.
5.56/223 needs about 50meters to develop its material penetration qualities, and performance is at its peak around 200 meters.
lol, my end is pretty damn well known throughout the shooting commuanity...
If you have data, that states otherwise, by all means post it up.
Some good reading on how the AR15 made its way into being the primary entry weapon on FBI HRT & SWAT teams.
Touches on the ballistics I'm posting about.
http://www.americanrifleman.org/mobile/article.php?id=24838
Special Agent Bob Taubert, then assigned to the unit responsible for training the FBI’s field SWAT teams, pushed for the change. When I talked with him recently, he gave full credit for the initial push to two Southwestern law officers, cousins Jack and Rick Furr. They, in turn, give credit to Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch fame, who was an early proponent of the AR as an entry weapon. Taubert finally convinced the Firearms Training Unit to test the ballistic performance of the .223 Rem. against the two SMG rounds then in use, the 9 mm Luger 147-gr. JHP and the 10 mm 180-gr. JHP.
Ballistic Research Facility personnel ran the rounds through the complete FBI protocol. When the smoke cleared, it was apparent that the .223 Rem. rounds penetrated less than the handgun cartridges. Except for the longer range of a missed round, the AR system was found to be a safer and more effective round to use in close-quarter combat.
The switch from submachine guns to the M16 and M4 was then rapid and complete. The MP5 in both calibers was replaced both in training and in the field. Today, new agents in training at Quantico use M4s with “iron” sights and modified to fire semi-automatic only. In the field, investigative agents use an M4 made by Rock River Arms with an adjustable-length stock, EOTech sight on a Dominator mount with a SureFire M73 light. The rifles are semi-automatic only. The field SWAT teams are using mostly Colt M4s capable of both semi- and full-automatic fire with PLR1 lights by Streamlight. A very few MP5s in either 9 mm or 10 mm are still out there but are seldom put into operation, and new agents in training at the FBI Academy, Quantico, are no longer trained on the system.
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last test I read:
Wall 1: Interior double drywall with insulation walls and normal studs
Wall 2: Interior double drywall with insulation walls and normal studs
Wall 3: Drywall, Insulation, Exterior plywood, Exterior siding
Wall 4: Reverse of wall 3, simulating house next door
Buck, Slug, 308 and 9mm out of common shotguns/subguns/rifles just kept fucking going
5.56 had a 50/50 chance of exiting the home, no penetrations of "next door". When it did exit the exterior siding of the "fired in home" it barely dented the siding "next door"
This was with standard 00 buck, rifled 1oz slug, and military-esque FMJ ammo.
Wall 1: Interior double drywall with insulation walls and normal studs
Wall 2: Interior double drywall with insulation walls and normal studs
Wall 3: Drywall, Insulation, Exterior plywood, Exterior siding
Wall 4: Reverse of wall 3, simulating house next door
Buck, Slug, 308 and 9mm out of common shotguns/subguns/rifles just kept fucking going
5.56 had a 50/50 chance of exiting the home, no penetrations of "next door". When it did exit the exterior siding of the "fired in home" it barely dented the siding "next door"
This was with standard 00 buck, rifled 1oz slug, and military-esque FMJ ammo.
Also I have quite a few pdf's supporting what I am saying, but cant post them due to being limited to my phone. But will be glad to share them when I can.
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Aw yes. We called it "Cruiser safe."
Guess you guys in PA call it "Cheese Steak ready"
