Here's some other key things from Calguns, a nonprofit committed to re-establishing the 2A in California, the land of stupid laws:
Can I buy a gun outside California?
If you do not have any kind of FFL, NO.
Federal law requires interstate transfers to go through a CA FFL for CA residents.
It is illegal for either an FFL or a private person to sell and deliver a firearm to someone who does not live in the same state as the seller where that transaction is unlawful in the sellers state or the buyers state.
It is often unlawful for a person to somehow acquire a firearm outside his state of residence and bring it back to his state unless his state law or residence allows those transactions. Note that some states treat long guns and handguns differently and treat some subset of states differently.
You CAN select a firearm from out of state and have it shipped to a California FFL to complete the transaction.
Geography is not relevant; the current location of the gun does not determine whether the transfer is interstate – the state of residence of the current owner and seller does.
Additional information specifically about pistols:
What is the "Safe Handgun Roster?"
The California Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale. It lists the handguns which a non-Law Enforcement California resident can buy new from a dealer. More info
here and
here.
Can I buy a handgun not on the "Roster” from an FFL/Dealer?
No, unless you are a Law Enforcement Officer or otherwise exempt.
Is there any way to buy a handgun that is not on the Safe Handgun Roster?
Yes. Current law enforcement (not retired) is exempt from the Handgun Roster, and may resell off-Roster handguns to non-LEO.
Non-LEO may also sell off-Roster handguns through the CA Private Party Transfer (PPT) process at an FFL.
Why are some guns on the Roster, and similar guns from the same manufacturer NOT on the Roster?
Manufacturer's choice - each gun model costs the manufacturer 3 copies of the gun, $200, and ammunition to complete the testing; then it costs $200 annually for each model listed.
What about the 'similar gun' law at PC 12131.5?
That allows the manufacturer to avoid TESTING a model to get it on the Roster - but it still must be ADDED to the Roster before it can be sold and the manufacturer must pay the $200 for the initial and renewal listings.
Can I just buy an "off-Roster" handgun from an out of state FFL?
No. Since interstate transfers must go through a California FFL, ordering an off-Roster handgun from a gun sales web site or an out of state FFL will not work.
Are C&R handguns exempt from the roster?
Yes, as per
12132(g) PC
And further:
Is the Roster even about safety? No. The original intent was to put ‘Ring of Fire’ gun manufacturers out of business. Unfortunately for that intent, the guns – Davis, Lorcin, Bryco etc. – passed the tests.
It is also intended to establish the legislature’s ability to classify some guns as ‘bad’, and others as ‘less bad’. In this they have succeeded.
How does a gun get on the Roster? A manufacturer or an importer (and ONLY those) submits a handgun for testing. They must supply THREE copies of the gun to be tested, and pay a fee. (PC 12130)
The gun must pass a defined firing requirement (PC 12127) and a drop safety test (PC 12128). It must also meet other requirements in effect at the time it is submitted for testing,
currently a magazine disconnect and a loaded chamber indicator for semi-automatic handguns. (PC 12126(b)(5))
The Roster shows an expiration date; what is that for? That means it is time for the manufacturer/importer to pay the annual $200 fee for that model. If the fee is paid, the handgun stays on the Roster.
Nothing else has to happen. If the fee is paid, no new requirements apply after an expiration date.
What happens to a gun if the manufacturer/importer does not pay the fee? The gun drops off the Roster. Ordinarily, this happens because the manufacturer no longer sells that model.
Sometimes there is an administrative reason a fee is not paid. In at least one case, a manufacturer was allowed to certify that the gun as manufactured at that time was identical to the gun as tested when put on the Roster, and the gun was just put back on. [ 11 CA ADC § 4070(e) ]
If a manufacturer stops paying the fee, can someone else pay to keep it on the list? No. 11 CA ADC § 4059(c) and § 4071
Quote:
(c) Other than the DOJ, only the manufacturer/importer of a handgun model is authorized to submit that handgun model to a DOJ-Certified Laboratory for testing.
The Legislature passed a new law about handguns (e.g. microstamping); what does that mean for guns on the Roster?Unless the Legislature writes the law differently,
nothing. Guns on the Roster are not affected by laws passed after the gun was listed; so far, the changes have been required only for guns not yet on the Roster and offered for testing to get on the Roster after the effective date of the law.
I don’t get it. Guns on the Roster don’t have to meet the new laws?
Right. Example: A Glock pistol was added to the Roster in 2001. Glock, Inc. continues to pay the annual fee.
Effective 2007, all semi-automatic handguns submitted for testing to get on the Roster must have both a magazine disconnect and a loaded-chamber indicator.
This requirement has
no effect on guns already on the Roster, because the law is written as
Quote:
(5) Commencing January 1, 2007, for all center fire semiautomatic pistols
that are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 12131, it does not have both a chamber load indicator and if it has a detachable magazine, a magazine disconnect mechanism.
THEREFORE, the Glock does NOT need the magazine disconnect or loaded chamber indicator – it is already on the Roster, and the law is written to exclude guns already on the Roster.
Practically, what does it mean when a gun is NOT on the Roster, or a manufacturer lets one fall off the Roster?
California FFL dealers are not allowed to sell it to ‘civilians’ from dealer stock.
Huh? That’s it?
Yes.
LEOs can buy them. Someone can move into California as a legal owner of one or many handguns not on the Roster and bring them into the state.
Any California resident can transfer a non-Roster handgun to another California resident using Private Party Transfer. That has to happen at an FFL dealer, but the Roster does not apply to PPT.
Inherited guns and intra-family (within California only) transfers – which do not use FFLs – are exempt from being on the Roster. Out of state to CA
intra-family gifts are also exempt from the Roster, even though they must go through an FFL.
Falling off the Roster does not make handguns illegal and certainly does not make them unsafe in any meaningful usage of the term.
Why can’t I buy ‘gun x’, not on the Roster, from Joe Smith, or even Joe Smith, FFL, when those folks are out of state?
Federal law requires interstate transfer to go to an FFL in the receiver’s state. [18 USC 922 (a)(3) and (a)(5)] If you live in California, you can’t receive a handgun from out of state unless you have an FFL – and an FFL cannot sell a non-Roster gun to a non-LEO.
What guns do NOT have to be on the Roster?
Firearms listed as
curios or relics, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations. A list of Olympic target pistols, and
Quote:
12133. (a) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a single-action revolver that has at least a 5-cartridge capacity with a barrel length of not less than three inches, and meets any of the following specifications:
(1) Was originally manufactured prior to 1900 and is a
curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
(2) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at least 71/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.
(3) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at least 71/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled and that is currently approved for importation into the United States pursuant to the provisions of paragraph (3) of subsection (d) of Section 925 of Title 18 of the United States Code.
(b) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a single-shot pistol with a barrel length of not less than six inches and that has an overall length of at least 101/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.
Why is the ‘blue’ one on the Roster, and the ‘stainless’ one not?
Manufacturer’s choice. Every model sold by FFLs in California must be on the Roster and paid for, every year.
A manufacturer can save testing fees by certifying that one gun is different from another only in ‘minor’ attributes
Quote:
12131.5. (a) A firearm shall be deemed to satisfy the requirements of subdivision (a) of Section 12131 if another firearm made by the same manufacturer is already listed and the unlisted firearm differs from the listed firearm only in one or more of the following features:
(1) Finish, including, but not limited to, bluing, chrome-plating, oiling, or engraving.
(2) The material from which the grips are made.
(3) The shape or texture of the grips, so long as the difference in grip shape or texture does not in any way alter the dimensions, material, linkage, or functioning of the magazine well, the barrel, the chamber, or any of the components of the firing mechanism of the firearm.
(4) Any other purely cosmetic feature that does not in any way alter the dimensions, material, linkage, or functioning of the magazine well, the barrel, the chamber, or any of the components of the firing mechanism of the firearm.
but even those models must be added to the Roster.
Who’s responsible for this SNAFU?It was
SB15, in December of 1998 that started it.The bill went into effect January, 2001. The author was Senator Richard G. Polanco (D-Los Angeles). That bill created
PC 12125.
There have been two major modifications since then: Senator Scott’s 2003
SB 489 for loaded chamber indicator/magazine disconnect, and Assembly Member Feuer’s 2007
AB 1471, microstamping.
To give you an idea how fucking stupid this shit is:
Most people know what the HK USP pistol is. What you may not know is the variants of the fire control system. Variant 1 is DA/SA with safety on the left for a right handed shooter. Variant 2 is DA/SA with safety on the right for a lefty.
EVERYTHING ABOUT THE PISTOL IS EXACTLY THE SAME, there is no functional change.
Variant 1 is legal, variant 2 is NOT, in california.
Even better, it's only legal with a steel slide. Stainless with literally no functional change to the weapons design AT ALL? Illegal.
It costs manufacturers and importers ONLY, $200 a year to keep EACH VARIANT ON THE LIST. Certification costs them 3 weapons, ammunition for firing, and $200 for EACH VARIANT.
It costs $4,400 a year for HK to be able to sell just 22 of the pistols they manufacture, in cali. Certification, going off retail prices cost them >$60,000. For 22 pistols.
That's not even touching all the other firearms retardation in that state regarding long guns, transport, CCW or lack thereof, etc.
