Hey man, that speculation was raised already on this thread. And we are not going to speculate again until we see footage on FoxNews or Instagram reels.
Now the Marine FAST teams on the other hand....
Last edited:
Israel and Iran
- Thread starter TLDR20
- Start date
Hey man, that speculation was raised already on this thread. And we are not going to speculate again until we see footage on FoxNews or Instagram reels.
Now the Marine FAST teams on the other hand....
757
Member
Never Forget is an Israeli slogan based on the events that happened at Masada centuries earlier. Importantly, Hamas was democratically elected by the citizens of Gaza after the Israeli government ethnically cleansed their own population from the area in 2005.
Land for peace is a noble idea...and it has lead to this. I have a scar on my left wrist from a Hamas rocket (I was in Sderot picking up an exploded piece of ordinance) but the scars left by this event in Israel will likely never go away. Israel has to ensure that this never happens again.
The below image is either AWP after clearing Crotas End or me in Israel seconds before getting my scar.
Land for peace is a noble idea...and it has lead to this. I have a scar on my left wrist from a Hamas rocket (I was in Sderot picking up an exploded piece of ordinance) but the scars left by this event in Israel will likely never go away. Israel has to ensure that this never happens again.
The below image is either AWP after clearing Crotas End or me in Israel seconds before getting my scar.
Bluebird19
Unverified
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2023
- Messages
- 36
My bad, sorry. I didn’t see the speculation been made already.
You’re right. The Marines’ FAST teams though.
I've seen a lot of people on the news advocating for some extinction-level event in Gaza to get after Hamas. I understand how satisfying that might feel, on a surface level. But friends, let me break it down for you:
That's.
What.
They.
Want.
Mass deaths of Palestinians is exactly what Hamas wants. They NEED it. Hamas is more or less a death cult at this point, with the solitary aim of martyrdom in the name of destroying Israel. "From the river to the sea" is the chant you'll often hear at rallies supporting Hamas, Hezbollah, and other terror groups. "The river" is the Jordan River. "The sea" is the Mediterranean. The entire state of Israel is in between. So Hamas' entire reason for existence is to destroy Israel, and they are willing to martyr themselves and thousands of their own people if it will eventually provide that result.
Martyrdom is an extremely powerful thing; in our own country, look at the deaths of Lincoln, JFK, MLK, even George Floyd. The entire religion of Christianity is based on martyrdom. And so is Hamas' death cult.
All of the terrorists who flew, boated, walked, and/or motored their way into Israel a few days ago knowing that death was a possible, and even perhaps likely, result. Some of the squads, especially the death squads whose goal was to seize and hold territory for as long as possible, knew it was a one-way trip.
So why did they do it?
Ideology. They all know that they will not live to see the world they want created. There are in it to win it, generation upon generation.
Across their history, the Jews have been displaced, enslaved, and conquered many times. They were scattered across the world. And now they have what is arguably the most powerful state in the Middle East. Why? Because they had an enduring ideology, and people willing to fight to the death for it.
It's very hard to kill an idea. The best way to destroy it is to convince people of a better idea. Killing people and destroying property is often a necessary part of the convincing process (WWII) but it is insufficient. And we should make sure we don't abrogate our own values and the sense of who and what we are in the process.
During the GWOT, and particularly during my tours in Iraq, I saw what happened when we started to drift away from our values: it costs us credibility, moral authority, and freedom of action, and it empowers and emboldens our enemies. Abu Ghraib and the incident that inspired the book Blackhearts are two examples. Those were propaganda coups for the enemy, and they had the added benefit (to them) of being things we actually did. We shouldn't allow that kind of thing to happen here.
People will read what I just wrote and thing that I'm making a moral argument here; I'm not. I'm talking from a purely practical standpoint. There are 14 million Palestinians in the world. Only around 2 million of them live in Gaza. Even if all of them were killed or displaced in a "2nd nakhba" for example, there are still 12 million Palestinians, and hundreds of millions of Muslims, who are going to be SUPER pissed about it. Handled the wrong way, for example if there were a wholesale slaughter of Palestinians in Gaza, regardless of who is really to blame for it, there could be tens of thousands of additional radicalized Palestinians, and many times that in the wider Arab and Muslim worlds, who want to get their jihad on against "the Zionist entity" and anyone who supports it.
I mentioned earlier that a lot of people are going to die in the coming weeks, and that some of them won't deserve it. There are plenty of people who I think need to end up getting killed over this. I just don't want to see us go down a road that leads to more problems, especially if we can do it by dialing down the rhetoric a bit and fighting this war the way it needs to be fought: clear-eyed, and with the long game in mind.
Because the long game is 100% how our enemies are thinking.
That's.
What.
They.
Want.
Mass deaths of Palestinians is exactly what Hamas wants. They NEED it. Hamas is more or less a death cult at this point, with the solitary aim of martyrdom in the name of destroying Israel. "From the river to the sea" is the chant you'll often hear at rallies supporting Hamas, Hezbollah, and other terror groups. "The river" is the Jordan River. "The sea" is the Mediterranean. The entire state of Israel is in between. So Hamas' entire reason for existence is to destroy Israel, and they are willing to martyr themselves and thousands of their own people if it will eventually provide that result.
Martyrdom is an extremely powerful thing; in our own country, look at the deaths of Lincoln, JFK, MLK, even George Floyd. The entire religion of Christianity is based on martyrdom. And so is Hamas' death cult.
All of the terrorists who flew, boated, walked, and/or motored their way into Israel a few days ago knowing that death was a possible, and even perhaps likely, result. Some of the squads, especially the death squads whose goal was to seize and hold territory for as long as possible, knew it was a one-way trip.
So why did they do it?
Ideology. They all know that they will not live to see the world they want created. There are in it to win it, generation upon generation.
Across their history, the Jews have been displaced, enslaved, and conquered many times. They were scattered across the world. And now they have what is arguably the most powerful state in the Middle East. Why? Because they had an enduring ideology, and people willing to fight to the death for it.
It's very hard to kill an idea. The best way to destroy it is to convince people of a better idea. Killing people and destroying property is often a necessary part of the convincing process (WWII) but it is insufficient. And we should make sure we don't abrogate our own values and the sense of who and what we are in the process.
During the GWOT, and particularly during my tours in Iraq, I saw what happened when we started to drift away from our values: it costs us credibility, moral authority, and freedom of action, and it empowers and emboldens our enemies. Abu Ghraib and the incident that inspired the book Blackhearts are two examples. Those were propaganda coups for the enemy, and they had the added benefit (to them) of being things we actually did. We shouldn't allow that kind of thing to happen here.
People will read what I just wrote and thing that I'm making a moral argument here; I'm not. I'm talking from a purely practical standpoint. There are 14 million Palestinians in the world. Only around 2 million of them live in Gaza. Even if all of them were killed or displaced in a "2nd nakhba" for example, there are still 12 million Palestinians, and hundreds of millions of Muslims, who are going to be SUPER pissed about it. Handled the wrong way, for example if there were a wholesale slaughter of Palestinians in Gaza, regardless of who is really to blame for it, there could be tens of thousands of additional radicalized Palestinians, and many times that in the wider Arab and Muslim worlds, who want to get their jihad on against "the Zionist entity" and anyone who supports it.
I mentioned earlier that a lot of people are going to die in the coming weeks, and that some of them won't deserve it. There are plenty of people who I think need to end up getting killed over this. I just don't want to see us go down a road that leads to more problems, especially if we can do it by dialing down the rhetoric a bit and fighting this war the way it needs to be fought: clear-eyed, and with the long game in mind.
Because the long game is 100% how our enemies are thinking.
Last edited:
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
I totally understand and agree with your posy bro. That said, I still hope and pray, Israel murders all involved. Horribly slow and painful. They are more that capable of that violence.
I'm totally fine with a whole lot of people getting killed over this, I just want it to be the right ones, and done in a way that sets the conditions for future success for our national interests.
757
Member
Look I said it could be me or AWP, I'm gonna leave the guessing up to you
757
Member
No sir. Pm sent.
All military aged males?
Blizzard
Member
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2012
- Messages
- 3,511
The elders too; don't need their baggage hanging around.
So nany stupid statements out on this war. Following the war zone related insta pages, you can see there's tons of supporters from the other side.
These celebrity and media idiots show how widespread the brain disease of pacifism and nonviolence really have come. We are talking about wholesale slaughter, torture, rape, and mutilation and people are acting like its not radically religiously motivated. Some "apartheid" made them this way.
Like that statement from M Kalifa when she cant step foot in Gaza...I'm no fan of M Kalifa but i know who she is. Once i got to see a few arab women up close it kind of turned me off to them. However, if she made a movie where some guy in one if those top hats and the curly hair things comes in an starts slamming her around, smacking her face in and choking her, I'd watch that....
These celebrity and media idiots show how widespread the brain disease of pacifism and nonviolence really have come. We are talking about wholesale slaughter, torture, rape, and mutilation and people are acting like its not radically religiously motivated. Some "apartheid" made them this way.
Like that statement from M Kalifa when she cant step foot in Gaza...I'm no fan of M Kalifa but i know who she is. Once i got to see a few arab women up close it kind of turned me off to them. However, if she made a movie where some guy in one if those top hats and the curly hair things comes in an starts slamming her around, smacking her face in and choking her, I'd watch that....
Any combatant. They don’t have to be males and they don’t have to be military aged.
Devildoc
Verified Military
I believe Satterly said something on Shawn Ryan about the threat of a 13-year-old holding an AK when he was in Mogadishu. Cross thread points.
If the roles were reversed, if people in my city started killing name-a-group-here, beheading the infants and children, raping and parading the women, my inaction would be seen as tacit approval at best and full-on support at worst and people would rightfully be asking why me and my neighbors aren't doing something about it.
Imagine if this shit occurred in a non democratic cesspool, instead, a good ole boy town.
I'm assured the savages would be hanging upside down, headless similar to
cartel style in Jaurez, Mexico.
I know, if shit went down in my AO, the hood rats with tec 9s would be like...BRRRRRRP!
I'm assured the savages would be hanging upside down, headless similar to
cartel style in Jaurez, Mexico.
I know, if shit went down in my AO, the hood rats with tec 9s would be like...BRRRRRRP!
A 180 from my opinion, but quite fair and rational.
So, given all of the factors ruining Palestinians: radicalized religion, economy, Hamas, etc., what's your way forward and how likely would it be that Israel would enact your plan?
Ultimately, Iran is the real problem here. Iran will not accept any form of a peace deal that ends its hold over Palestinians. With Iran also funding Hezbollah, you have that problem as well. How will Israel ever know peace as long as Iran is involved?
Blizzard
Member
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2012
- Messages
- 3,511
This gets at the root cause of a lot of the problem.
It's not the religious differences, we'll it is, but it's more that Hamas, Hezbollah, et al having the financial, political and military support of a sponsor state like Iran to continue to stoking the fire.
Without Iran's support, those groups become much less relevant. Syria plays a roll too especially with Hezbollah, but the real problem is Iran. Everyone knows this, but, as was pointed out earlier here (or maybe another thread) by @Marauder06, there's a lack conviction, for whatever reason, to do anything about it. So, the beat goes on.
Box
Verified SOF
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2018
- Messages
- 1,569
I'm conflicted - and not the snarky conflicted that I live with day to day - seriously conflicted.
You cannot kill an idea - but you can definitely kill enough believers to convince them that trying to force their ideas on others carries an astronomical fee.
Does violence beget violence?
Sure it does - and so what - because those who refuse to defend an ideology will be killed off by those that are not afraid to proliferate their own ideas.
Is Hamas a death cult?
Of course they are - so give them what they want.
ERADICATE THEM.
If the rest of the 1.6 billion Muslims around the world see this as an affront - then perhaps they don't see current events as they should. Any percentage of that 1.6 billion that see current events as 'due process' for some perceived slight that is worthy of raping, torturing, and murdering innocent men, women, and children - just to make a point - well, then fuck 'em.
I consider ANY percentage that would defend what happened as at best apologists and supporters - at worst, radical islamofascists, worthy of nothing more than the martyrdom they seek.
Keep your views and ideas - to yourself - but this jihad you seek is a two way street - and I would posit that even though we can't kill the idea of radical islamofascism - those who espouse it can certainly be killed off by the bushel basket until the rest of them decide to calm the fuck down.
Allied forces during World War 2 killed the living shit out of a few ideas.
Nazi ideology was pretty comfortable in their position that their so called “Aryan Race" was the superior strain of the human race.
Then one day, way back in 1936, a young black man from Oakville Alabama destroyed that myth.
Cleanly.
Effortlessly.
And he did it with out violence.
Unfortunately, those who continued to propagate that myth had to be dealt with violently because sometimes, you have to forego the effort to "kill an idea" and replace it with the action of killing everyone that continues to advance that idea. Many of the twisted and misguided ideas still exist today. The difference is, those ideas are now tamed and quiet in comparison. A generation made it clear to the entire world - continue to behave like this - and we are going to level your fucking cities. Continue down this path, and we will firebomb the very fucking home where you raise your children. Resist, and we will turn the landscape red with the blood of your fathers, sons, brothers, and children.
And then we went right out and did that very thing to prove that we were not fucking around.
We didn't just rattle sabres.
We didn't look for a camera lens to talk into.
We didn't virtue signal on Twitter.
We didn't add caveats to our condemnation.
We didn't hire a bunch of washed up retirees to be news contributors.
We passed judgment.
We prosecuted our tormentors without mercy.
We went out and clubbed mother fuckers to death with a rifle butt.
We went out and set mother fuckers on fire.
...and then when that wasn't enough, we went out and firebombed their fucking cities.
We absolutely refused to apologize for our fury - we demanded an unconditional surrender.
Then, 'we the people' turned our fucking descendants into a generation of dope smoking hippy peaceniks.
We the people have become nation of citizens with a national stomach too sensitive to digest the amount of hot sauce it takes to grind evil back into the mud when it surfaces - and make no mistake - radical islamofascism is NOT a religious belief - it is an evil that needs to be mercilessly ground back into the mud before it spreads and poisons others.
Sure - the idea may not die - but those who would use that idea to torture, rape, and murder innocent men, women, and children because they believe in a different version of God - should live in the very terror that they seek to visit on others.
Just my two cents.
You cannot kill an idea - but you can definitely kill enough believers to convince them that trying to force their ideas on others carries an astronomical fee.
Does violence beget violence?
Sure it does - and so what - because those who refuse to defend an ideology will be killed off by those that are not afraid to proliferate their own ideas.
Is Hamas a death cult?
Of course they are - so give them what they want.
ERADICATE THEM.
If the rest of the 1.6 billion Muslims around the world see this as an affront - then perhaps they don't see current events as they should. Any percentage of that 1.6 billion that see current events as 'due process' for some perceived slight that is worthy of raping, torturing, and murdering innocent men, women, and children - just to make a point - well, then fuck 'em.
I consider ANY percentage that would defend what happened as at best apologists and supporters - at worst, radical islamofascists, worthy of nothing more than the martyrdom they seek.
Keep your views and ideas - to yourself - but this jihad you seek is a two way street - and I would posit that even though we can't kill the idea of radical islamofascism - those who espouse it can certainly be killed off by the bushel basket until the rest of them decide to calm the fuck down.
Allied forces during World War 2 killed the living shit out of a few ideas.
Nazi ideology was pretty comfortable in their position that their so called “Aryan Race" was the superior strain of the human race.
Then one day, way back in 1936, a young black man from Oakville Alabama destroyed that myth.
Cleanly.
Effortlessly.
And he did it with out violence.
Unfortunately, those who continued to propagate that myth had to be dealt with violently because sometimes, you have to forego the effort to "kill an idea" and replace it with the action of killing everyone that continues to advance that idea. Many of the twisted and misguided ideas still exist today. The difference is, those ideas are now tamed and quiet in comparison. A generation made it clear to the entire world - continue to behave like this - and we are going to level your fucking cities. Continue down this path, and we will firebomb the very fucking home where you raise your children. Resist, and we will turn the landscape red with the blood of your fathers, sons, brothers, and children.
And then we went right out and did that very thing to prove that we were not fucking around.
We didn't just rattle sabres.
We didn't look for a camera lens to talk into.
We didn't virtue signal on Twitter.
We didn't add caveats to our condemnation.
We didn't hire a bunch of washed up retirees to be news contributors.
We passed judgment.
We prosecuted our tormentors without mercy.
We went out and clubbed mother fuckers to death with a rifle butt.
We went out and set mother fuckers on fire.
...and then when that wasn't enough, we went out and firebombed their fucking cities.
We absolutely refused to apologize for our fury - we demanded an unconditional surrender.
Then, 'we the people' turned our fucking descendants into a generation of dope smoking hippy peaceniks.
We the people have become nation of citizens with a national stomach too sensitive to digest the amount of hot sauce it takes to grind evil back into the mud when it surfaces - and make no mistake - radical islamofascism is NOT a religious belief - it is an evil that needs to be mercilessly ground back into the mud before it spreads and poisons others.
Sure - the idea may not die - but those who would use that idea to torture, rape, and murder innocent men, women, and children because they believe in a different version of God - should live in the very terror that they seek to visit on others.
Just my two cents.
Last edited:
