Israel and Iran

Domestic terrorists and activists siding with overseas terrorists and activists. What could possibly go wrong?

Liberals need to wake the fuck up. Not Conservative? Fine. Support celebrity causes the Left promotes? You’re no better than those you support, you’re now a terrorist. You want peace? Remove organizations like Hamas. If not? Reap it.

You will only seat people at the peace table once you’ve delivered enough crushing violence and loss. Don’t believe me? Can I interest you in history…?
 
TLDR20 said:
Looks like Israel and Iran are getting pretty saucy.

Reports of explosions at government buildings in Tehran.

Links:

Drones attack military plant in Iran: Tehran

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Iran raised fighter jets over the capital Tehran. There are unconfirmed explosions there as well. <a href="https://t.co/hRje3xwuOp">pic.twitter.com/hRje3xwuOp</a></p>&mdash; NOËL 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 (@NOELreports) <a href="
https://twitter.com/x/status/1619481685887975424
">January 28, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Click to expand...
Indeed. Maybe because I don’t watch the news that much but I was surprised that a war started all of a sudden. Do you guys think that the U.S millitary will send SOCOM units there to fight the Hamas?
 
Bluebird19 said:
Indeed. Maybe because I don’t watch the news that much but I was surprised that a war started all of a sudden. Do you guys think that the U.S millitary will send SOCOM units there to fight the Hamas?
Click to expand...

Hey man, that speculation was raised already on this thread. And we are not going to speculate again until we see footage on FoxNews or Instagram reels.

Now the Marine FAST teams on the other hand....
 
Last edited:
Never Forget is an Israeli slogan based on the events that happened at Masada centuries earlier. Importantly, Hamas was democratically elected by the citizens of Gaza after the Israeli government ethnically cleansed their own population from the area in 2005.

Land for peace is a noble idea...and it has lead to this. I have a scar on my left wrist from a Hamas rocket (I was in Sderot picking up an exploded piece of ordinance) but the scars left by this event in Israel will likely never go away. Israel has to ensure that this never happens again.

The below image is either AWP after clearing Crotas End or me in Israel seconds before getting my scar.

10 10 2023.png
 
I've seen a lot of people on the news advocating for some extinction-level event in Gaza to get after Hamas. I understand how satisfying that might feel, on a surface level. But friends, let me break it down for you:

That's.

What.

They.

Want.

Mass deaths of Palestinians is exactly what Hamas wants. They NEED it. Hamas is more or less a death cult at this point, with the solitary aim of martyrdom in the name of destroying Israel. "From the river to the sea" is the chant you'll often hear at rallies supporting Hamas, Hezbollah, and other terror groups. "The river" is the Jordan River. "The sea" is the Mediterranean. The entire state of Israel is in between. So Hamas' entire reason for existence is to destroy Israel, and they are willing to martyr themselves and thousands of their own people if it will eventually provide that result.

Martyrdom is an extremely powerful thing; in our own country, look at the deaths of Lincoln, JFK, MLK, even George Floyd. The entire religion of Christianity is based on martyrdom. And so is Hamas' death cult.

All of the terrorists who flew, boated, walked, and/or motored their way into Israel a few days ago knowing that death was a possible, and even perhaps likely, result. Some of the squads, especially the death squads whose goal was to seize and hold territory for as long as possible, knew it was a one-way trip.

So why did they do it?

Ideology. They all know that they will not live to see the world they want created. There are in it to win it, generation upon generation.

Across their history, the Jews have been displaced, enslaved, and conquered many times. They were scattered across the world. And now they have what is arguably the most powerful state in the Middle East. Why? Because they had an enduring ideology, and people willing to fight to the death for it.

It's very hard to kill an idea. The best way to destroy it is to convince people of a better idea. Killing people and destroying property is often a necessary part of the convincing process (WWII) but it is insufficient. And we should make sure we don't abrogate our own values and the sense of who and what we are in the process.

During the GWOT, and particularly during my tours in Iraq, I saw what happened when we started to drift away from our values: it costs us credibility, moral authority, and freedom of action, and it empowers and emboldens our enemies. Abu Ghraib and the incident that inspired the book Blackhearts are two examples. Those were propaganda coups for the enemy, and they had the added benefit (to them) of being things we actually did. We shouldn't allow that kind of thing to happen here.

People will read what I just wrote and thing that I'm making a moral argument here; I'm not. I'm talking from a purely practical standpoint. There are 14 million Palestinians in the world. Only around 2 million of them live in Gaza. Even if all of them were killed or displaced in a "2nd nakhba" for example, there are still 12 million Palestinians, and hundreds of millions of Muslims, who are going to be SUPER pissed about it. Handled the wrong way, for example if there were a wholesale slaughter of Palestinians in Gaza, regardless of who is really to blame for it, there could be tens of thousands of additional radicalized Palestinians, and many times that in the wider Arab and Muslim worlds, who want to get their jihad on against "the Zionist entity" and anyone who supports it.

I mentioned earlier that a lot of people are going to die in the coming weeks, and that some of them won't deserve it. There are plenty of people who I think need to end up getting killed over this. I just don't want to see us go down a road that leads to more problems, especially if we can do it by dialing down the rhetoric a bit and fighting this war the way it needs to be fought: clear-eyed, and with the long game in mind.

Because the long game is 100% how our enemies are thinking.
 
Last edited:
757 said:
Never Forget is an Israeli slogan based on the events that happened at Masada centuries earlier. Importantly, Hamas was democratically elected by the citizens of Gaza after the Israeli government ethnically cleansed their own population from the area in 2005.

Land for peace is a noble idea...and it has lead to this. I have a scar on my left wrist from a Hamas rocket (I was in Sderot picking up an exploded piece of ordinance) but the scars left by this event in Israel will likely never go away. Israel has to ensure that this never happens again.

The below image is either AWP after clearing Crotas End or me in Israel seconds before getting my scar.

View attachment 43230
Click to expand...
What is this 2006, polo and basketball shorts? High Fashion there brother!
 
757 said:
Never Forget is an Israeli slogan based on the events that happened at Masada centuries earlier. Importantly, Hamas was democratically elected by the citizens of Gaza after the Israeli government ethnically cleansed their own population from the area in 2005.

Land for peace is a noble idea...and it has lead to this. I have a scar on my left wrist from a Hamas rocket (I was in Sderot picking up an exploded piece of ordinance) but the scars left by this event in Israel will likely never go away. Israel has to ensure that this never happens again.

The below image is either AWP after clearing Crotas End or me in Israel seconds before getting my scar.

View attachment 43230
Click to expand...
Birthright?
 
Marauder06 said:
I've seen a lot of people on the news advocating for some extinction-level event in Gaza to get after Hamas. I understand how satisfying that might feel, on a surface level. But friends, let me break it down for you:

That's.

What.

They.

Want.

Mass deaths of Palestinians is exactly what Hamas wants. They NEED it. Hamas is more or less a death cult at this point, with the solitary aim of martyrdom in the name of destroying Israel. "From the river to the sea" is the chant you'll often hear at rallies supporting Hamas, Hezbollah, and other terror groups. "The river" is the Jordan River. "The sea" is the Mediterranean. The entire state of Israel is in between. So Hamas' entire reason for existence is to destroy Israel, and they are willing to martyr themselves and thousands of their own people if it will eventually provide that result.

Martyrdom is an extremely powerful thing; in our own country, look at the deaths of Lincoln, JFK, MLK, even George Floyd. The entire religion of Christianity is based on martyrdom. And so is Hamas' death cult.

All of the terrorists who flew, boated, walked, and/or motored their way into Israel a few days ago knowing that death was a possible, and even perhaps likely, result. Some of the squads, especially the death squads whose goal was to seize and hold territory for as long as possible, knew it was a one-way trip.

So why did they do it?

Ideology. They all know that they will not live to see the world they want created. There are in it to win it, generation upon generation.

Across their history, the Jews have been displaced, enslaved, and conquered many times. They were scattered across the world. And now they have what is arguably the most powerful state in the Middle East. Why? Because they had an enduring ideology, and people willing to fight to the death for it.

It's very hard to kill an idea. The best way to destroy it is to convince people of a better idea. Killing people and destroying property is often a necessary part of the convincing process (WWII) but it is insufficient. And we should make sure we don't abrogate our own values and the sense of who and what we are in the process.

During the GWOT, and particularly during my tours in Iraq, I saw what happened when we started to drift away from our values: it costs us credibility, moral authority, and freedom of action, and it empowers and emboldens our enemies. Abu Ghraib and the incident that inspired the book Blackhearts are two examples. Those were propaganda coups for the enemy, and they had the added benefit (to them) of being things we actually did. We shouldn't allow that kind of thing to happen here.

People will read what I just wrote and thing that I'm making amoral argument here; I'm not. I'm talking from a purely practical standpoint here. There are 14 million Palestinians in the world. Only around 2 million of them live in Gaza. Even if all of them were killed or displaced in a "2nd nakhba" for example, there are still 12 million Palestinians, and hundreds of millions of Muslims, who are going to be SUPER pissed about it. Handled the wrong way, for example if there were a wholesale slaughter of Palestinians in Gaza, regardless of who is really to blame for it, there could be tens of thousands of additional radicalized Palestinians, and many times that in the wider Arab and Muslim worlds, who want to get their jihad on against "the Zionist entity" and anyone who supports it.

I mentioned earlier that a lot of people are going to die in the coming weeks, and that some of them won't deserve it. There are plenty of people who I think need to end up getting killed over this. I just don't want to see us go down a road that leads to more problems, especially if we can do it by dialing down the rhetoric a bit and fighting this war the way it needs to be fought: clear-eyed, and with the long game in mind.

Because the long game is 100% how our enemies are thinking.
Click to expand...

I totally understand and agree with your posy bro. That said, I still hope and pray, Israel murders all involved. Horribly slow and painful. They are more that capable of that violence.
 
Muppet said:
I totally understand and agree with your posy bro. That said, I still hope and pray, Israel murders all involved. Horribly slow and painful. They are more that capable of that violence.
Click to expand...
I'm totally fine with a whole lot of people getting killed over this, I just want it to be the right ones, and done in a way that sets the conditions for future success for our national interests.
 
So nany stupid statements out on this war. Following the war zone related insta pages, you can see there's tons of supporters from the other side.

These celebrity and media idiots show how widespread the brain disease of pacifism and nonviolence really have come. We are talking about wholesale slaughter, torture, rape, and mutilation and people are acting like its not radically religiously motivated. Some "apartheid" made them this way.

Like that statement from M Kalifa when she cant step foot in Gaza...I'm no fan of M Kalifa but i know who she is. Once i got to see a few arab women up close it kind of turned me off to them. However, if she made a movie where some guy in one if those top hats and the curly hair things comes in an starts slamming her around, smacking her face in and choking her, I'd watch that....
 
Marauder06 said:
Any combatant. They don’t have to be males and they don’t have to be military aged.
Click to expand...

I believe Satterly said something on Shawn Ryan about the threat of a 13-year-old holding an AK when he was in Mogadishu. Cross thread points.

If the roles were reversed, if people in my city started killing name-a-group-here, beheading the infants and children, raping and parading the women, my inaction would be seen as tacit approval at best and full-on support at worst and people would rightfully be asking why me and my neighbors aren't doing something about it.
 
Marauder06 said:
I've seen a lot of people on the news advocating for some extinction-level event in Gaza to get after Hamas. I understand how satisfying that might feel, on a surface level. But friends, let me break it down for you:

That's.

What.

They.

Want.

Mass deaths of Palestinians is exactly what Hamas wants. They NEED it. Hamas is more or less a death cult at this point, with the solitary aim of martyrdom in the name of destroying Israel. "From the river to the sea" is the chant you'll often hear at rallies supporting Hamas, Hezbollah, and other terror groups. "The river" is the Jordan River. "The sea" is the Mediterranean. The entire state of Israel is in between. So Hamas' entire reason for existence is to destroy Israel, and they are willing to martyr themselves and thousands of their own people if it will eventually provide that result.

Martyrdom is an extremely powerful thing; in our own country, look at the deaths of Lincoln, JFK, MLK, even George Floyd. The entire religion of Christianity is based on martyrdom. And so is Hamas' death cult.

All of the terrorists who flew, boated, walked, and/or motored their way into Israel a few days ago knowing that death was a possible, and even perhaps likely, result. Some of the squads, especially the death squads whose goal was to seize and hold territory for as long as possible, knew it was a one-way trip.

So why did they do it?

Ideology. They all know that they will not live to see the world they want created. There are in it to win it, generation upon generation.

Across their history, the Jews have been displaced, enslaved, and conquered many times. They were scattered across the world. And now they have what is arguably the most powerful state in the Middle East. Why? Because they had an enduring ideology, and people willing to fight to the death for it.

It's very hard to kill an idea. The best way to destroy it is to convince people of a better idea. Killing people and destroying property is often a necessary part of the convincing process (WWII) but it is insufficient. And we should make sure we don't abrogate our own values and the sense of who and what we are in the process.

During the GWOT, and particularly during my tours in Iraq, I saw what happened when we started to drift away from our values: it costs us credibility, moral authority, and freedom of action, and it empowers and emboldens our enemies. Abu Ghraib and the incident that inspired the book Blackhearts are two examples. Those were propaganda coups for the enemy, and they had the added benefit (to them) of being things we actually did. We shouldn't allow that kind of thing to happen here.

People will read what I just wrote and thing that I'm making a moral argument here; I'm not. I'm talking from a purely practical standpoint. There are 14 million Palestinians in the world. Only around 2 million of them live in Gaza. Even if all of them were killed or displaced in a "2nd nakhba" for example, there are still 12 million Palestinians, and hundreds of millions of Muslims, who are going to be SUPER pissed about it. Handled the wrong way, for example if there were a wholesale slaughter of Palestinians in Gaza, regardless of who is really to blame for it, there could be tens of thousands of additional radicalized Palestinians, and many times that in the wider Arab and Muslim worlds, who want to get their jihad on against "the Zionist entity" and anyone who supports it.

I mentioned earlier that a lot of people are going to die in the coming weeks, and that some of them won't deserve it. There are plenty of people who I think need to end up getting killed over this. I just don't want to see us go down a road that leads to more problems, especially if we can do it by dialing down the rhetoric a bit and fighting this war the way it needs to be fought: clear-eyed, and with the long game in mind.

Because the long game is 100% how our enemies are thinking.
Click to expand...

A 180 from my opinion, but quite fair and rational.

So, given all of the factors ruining Palestinians: radicalized religion, economy, Hamas, etc., what's your way forward and how likely would it be that Israel would enact your plan?

Ultimately, Iran is the real problem here. Iran will not accept any form of a peace deal that ends its hold over Palestinians. With Iran also funding Hezbollah, you have that problem as well. How will Israel ever know peace as long as Iran is involved?
 

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