Military Misconduct

Marauder06 said:
Hawaii-based Marine allegedly stabbed his (ex?)wife to death on the side of the H3. :(

Marine allegedly stabs and kills pregnant ex-wife in Hawaii
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She was apparently pretty vocal on social media about reporting him to his Chain and local PD, but nothing was ever done.

A Marine allegedly murdered his ex-wife. Her family says the Corps ignored her previous pleas for help

From the article

Military police at Marine Corps Base Hawaii, and the Honolulu Police Department, responded to “multiple instances” of domestic disputes both on and off base, the 3rd Marine Division statement says. The Marine Corps said that immediately after the reported instances, Tejedacastillo and Alotaibi were referred to the Family Advocacy Program “for counseling and support.”
The Family Advocacy Program is focused on “directly addressing domestic violence through prevention, education, reporting, intervention and treatment,” according to the Marine Corps. The FAP website says the program utilizes “highly-qualified, licensed clinical staff” who are “trained in family violence” to assist families.
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Bolded is me, not the article.

How fucking crazy is it that the MPs respond to MULTIPLE CALLS of domestic violence and the plan of action is "have you tried talking to a counselor?".

The time to talk to a counselor is before dude starts beating on her, not after he does it a dozen damn times.
 
Topkick said:
I get that these dudes are baddest of badasses, but what happened to taking care of your people? There has to be a balance.
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An Air Force officer I worked with mused if anything was to be gained by practicing bleeding...first time I heard the expression, but in retrospect, some of what we do in those schools could be defined that way, in my opinion.
 
I honestly don’t think you need to go through all that hellacious hazing and torture to be a professional Special Operations Soldier, Sailor, Marine or Airman. Tough training, yes. Tough schools, yes. Long pipeline, yes. Exacting qualifications, yes. But there’s a line between tough training and just sadistic bullshit.
 
I have friends who were SEALs. One of my best friends from FMSS elected to try out for BUDS rather than recon, he is a retired E9 now.

We talk about this stuff, and it burns his chaps. We both think it's unfortunate that the entire community is measured by stuff like this, and by that book that came out in the spring. But I have told him that his community has to set it right, leadership has to fix it. Otherwise it is a self-eating snake that will never be fixed.

Things like this remind me of that old adage, "a person is good, but people are awful." The ones I know and like, I like very much and they are great guys. But they are not representative of this community for sure.
 
Devildoc said:
I have friends who were SEALs. One of my best friends from FMSS elected to try out for BUDS rather than recon, he is a retired E9 now.

We talk about this stuff, and it burns his chaps. We both think it's unfortunate that the entire community is measured by stuff like this, and by that book that came out in the spring. But I have told him that his community has to set it right, leadership has to fix it. Otherwise it is a self-eating snake that will never be fixed.

Things like this remind me of that old adage, "a person is good, but people are awful." The ones I know and like, I like very much and they are great guys. But they are not representative of this community for sure.
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Concur. There are thousands of SEALs. As with any career field, there will always be groups of assholes.
 
I've been hard on NSW for about "a minute" and taken a beating for my views, but I'm good with my stance. There are some amazing human beings, dedicated patriots and Americans in the Teams. I do not question their bravery for a second.

Their culture and their leadership however...sucks.

BUD/S is hard because it needs to be hard. Instructors, I base this solely on articles and my not-close-to-BUD/S experiences, need to be better trained. This is across the board in military, LEO, civilian education, the list goes on with varying degrees of severity. How does one defend an instructor allowing a trainee to cough up blood as acceptable?

The drugs? We've seen this before. Sadly, I doubt any of us are surprised.

Look, other branches and SOF units have problems. Rangers robbing banks, SF with a laundry list, but SEAL Teams? Look at the size of the force and the percentages, and some of the events. What is going on there? We can't argue that there are good men in those units, that is obvious. So where is their influence? How are they marginalized such that shit like this happens? Are they not speaking up or are they speaking up and leadership fails to act?

I "get" the community is under a microscope, but it brought that upon itself. Books, movies, video games, whatever, a mystique was created and they have to own that brand. Also, Dick Marcinko needs to eat of dicks. With some of the incidents that have occurred over the last two decades, why hasn't the community policed itself?

"Ban the SEAL Teams!" is a dumb take, but something has to happen and it has to be "bold." This can't happen in the shadows, it can't be "loss of confidence in his ability to command" statements, it has to be somewhat public and severe.

These are men who will not back down from a gunfight, but somehow and for some reason(s) back down from internal policing. Why?

The leadership and culture need to shift. BUD/S doesn't need an overhaul, leadership needs an overhaul. The community has earned the right to a better legacy, but not if this is the new normal. If this is the norm, this is the beating they deserve. SEALS can fix this, but will they?
 
Marauder06 said:
Lots of misconduct alleged in this read:

Death in Navy SEAL Training Exposes a Culture of Brutality, Cheating and Drugs
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That is wild. One thing that stood out to me is the attrition rate- 90%. And it got down to 66% in the late 2000s, early 2010s if I recall correctly.

That means the majority of the instructors went through during the high graduation days. Sounds like a lot of sadistic, untested dudes dishing out punishment they never received.

And steroid rings in selection? I’ve heard stories of some people doing that in other selections, but not an organized operation.

I don’t play the “who has the hardest” selection game. I’ll say that no selection is so difficult you cannot complete it by being prepared and in above average, perfectly attainable shape.
 
I was working “SEAL adjacent” in 2015-17, and a lot of the dudes were wearing “Make BUD/S Hard Again” shirts. Makes you wonder, a 3-4 year pump, zero (real) deployments and now you a nightmare cadre to some kid who would literally die before he quits.
 
TLDR20 said:
I was working “SEAL adjacent” in 2015-17, and a lot of the dudes were wearing “Make BUD/S Hard Again” shirts. Makes you wonder, a 3-4 year pump, zero (real) deployments and now you a nightmare cadre to some kid who would literally die before he quits.
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“If it wasn’t done to me, I won’t do it to you.” That was my Motto when it came to corrective training when I was still on the line. And even then, I had some shit done to me as a private I would never put another grown ass man through.

Empathy is an underrated personal skill in SOF, IMO.
 

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