Milo Yiannopoulos - discuss

[Salt USMC]

Not sure how many of you will like Dilbert after this BUT this is the best opinion piece I've read yet on the Berkeley hysteria and Milo. I also suggest reading the article he references in the first line, I hyperlinked it; it explains the complete nonsense in the comparison of Trump and Hitler.

Scott Adams is a perfect example of the broken clock theory. If you've been reading his blogs since the election season, he switched support from Johnson, to Trump, to Hillary*, to Johnson, then Trump after he won. He has some bizarre theory hypnotism as a means of national persuasion that's absolutely bonkers but probably makes perfect sense in Adams' mind.

This is a pretty good summary of his election-related blogging: No One Understands Donald Trump Like the Horny Narcissist Who Created Dilbert

*He claimed that this support for Hillary was because he feared for his own life.

 

[Etype]

... who won't go as far as Milo will (although he says he isn't alt-right, he shares a lot of their ideology) ...

Do you really believe Milo is anywhere near being alt-right, or did this just seem like a fun and provocative thing to say?

Why would a gay Brit be a homophobic white nationalist?

A quick Google search of Milo and Daily Stormer brings up plenty of hate articles.

 

[Salt USMC]

Milo has certainly made statements in the past that construe him as a self-loathing homosexual: Comedian explodes on ‘self-loathing’ gay conservative who wants to be straight: Face it, ‘you are gay as f*ck!’

I know that Joe Rogan is not the ultimate authority on interviews, but he does a good job of calling Milo's attitudes for what they are. And it's not like it's a unique attitude, either. Women can be misogynist. Gays can certainly hate other gays. Just take a look at the number of anti-gay "Family values" republicans who were forced out of the closet! Troy King, Roy Ashburn, Larry Craig, and others. The stereotype of the self-hating Jew is more prevalent than you'd imagine. There are all kinds of ways that societal pressures or learned biases can prejudice people against their own kind.

 

[Etype]

Milo has certainly made statements in the past that construe him as a self-loathing homosexual: Comedian explodes on ‘self-loathing’ gay conservative who wants to be straight: Face it, ‘you are gay as f*ck!’

I know that Joe Rogan is not the ultimate authority on interviews, but he does a good job of calling Milo's attitudes for what they are. And it's not like it's a unique attitude, either. Women can be misogynist. Gays can certainly hate other gays. Just take a look at the number of anti-gay "Family values" republicans who were forced out of the closet! Troy King, Roy Ashburn, Larry Craig, and others. The stereotype of the self-hating Jew is more prevalent than you'd imagine. There are all kinds of ways that societal pressures or learned biases can prejudice people against their own kind.

You just typed up a post saying, "it's possible and it can potentially happen."

 

[amlove21]

Do you really believe Milo is anywhere near being alt-right, or did this just seem like a fun and provocative thing to say?

Why would a gay Brit be a homophobic white nationalist?

A quick Google search of Milo and Daily Stormer brings up plenty of hate articles.

Yes, I believe his views align very closely with the alt right - he and Allum Bokhari coined the term in what equates to the alt-right manifesto in March 2016. He and Bokhari literally invented the term and described the movement. You can read the Brietbart article here

By his own admission and in the article the alt right is not homophobic or white nationalist or racist- they're just nationalist.

Here's a great video where he says theat he's not defined as the alt right but clearly and succinctly shows how his own ideologies and worldview align very nicely with the alt right.

ETA- Milo/Bokhari didn't invent the term, they wrote the definitive article about the alt right which codified that movement labeled it. The label and description of the movement was solidified after the article.

 

[amlove21]

Why would a gay Brit be a homophobic white nationalist?

A quick Google search of Milo and Daily Stormer brings up plenty of hate articles.

Oh, and I didn't say Milo was alt right, homophobic, or white nationalist. I said his ideology lines up well with the alt right.

If it's your assumption that one must be a homophobic white nationalist in order to be part of the alt right- therefore a self loathing homosexual Jew can't align to the alt right in part or nearly whole- you're just laying the ground work for the upcoming 'no true Scotsman'.

 

[Salt USMC]

You just typed up a post saying, "it's possible and it can potentially happen."

More like "It's possible and he probably is"

 

[Locksteady]

I've tended to pretty much ignore him and his videos, in fact I think that he was recently booted from Twitter. But recently people who I consider to be pretty conservative, but certainly not racist, are sending me his videos on Facebook and posting them on forums.

Am I missing something on this guy?

Full disclosure, I've only watched one of his videos (something to do with feminism) and he kinda-sorta made sense, but surely something that tame could not have gotten him banned from Twitter and almost litterally considered Satan himself by my more liberal friends.

In a nutshell, you have someone utilizing his 'marginalized' identity to expose hypocritical, inconvenient truths about purported proponents of equality and tolerance. He gets an especially high rise out of young feminists who do not tolerate information that threatens their narrative of Western females as the perpetual posterchildren for the underprivileged and oppressed, and his flamboyant homosexuality partially insulates him from ad hominems designed to detract from his referenced points. His expressed amusement at knowingly utilizing this to his advantage seems to frustrate his female opponents the most.

If you talk to him it becomes immediately apparent that he takes most of what he does only half-seriously (because he thinks the backlash to the idea of even discussing certain topics to be childish and ridiculous), and he clearly enjoys being positioned to poke people he considers to be self-righteous hypocrites.

 

[policemedic]

I guess some people didn't get the memo that certain "hate speech" is protected by the 1st Amendment.

racist speech | First Amendment Center – news, commentary, analysis on free speech, press, religion, assembly, petition

Sorry, kids, the 1st Amendment does protect 'hate speech'

I was just in a meeting the other week with the head of the local Anti Defamation League. She's an Ivy-educated attorney, and even she and by extension the ADL will say that hate speech is protected speech.

The truth is that popular speech doesn't require protection. The First Amendment was designed specifically to allow idiots to yammer loudly in the public square despite the fact their ideas are unpopular or offensive.

 

[ThunderHorse]

I still have no idea what alternative right is, Hard Right, yes.

I don't watch Milo often, but most of the time it's in clips of his best points. To bad he's not the Press Secretary.

As an authorized activity the Berkeley College Republicans were required to pay for additional security upfront for the event. They paid it, what happens the Black Bloc and friends show up. But it wasn't just the black bloc executing violence.

The leftist "protest" left $100,000 in damage: Berkeley cancels Milo Yiannopoulos talk after violent protests - CNN.com

The left can call Trump Hitler, but these are the tactics resembling Nazis and Fascists.

 

[TLDR20]

This whole thing is absurd to me. When one crazy right wing dude shoots up a church or blows up a federal building he is an extremist. Not representative of a political party or even a mainstream political movement. When millions of women people protest peacefully over the course of a weekend, almost all of whom are on the left, a few hundred in one place are then representative of libtards and the left? Such absurd hypocrisy.

Virtue signaling(@Marauder06) I'm a liberal. And they don't represent me or anyone I know....

 

[ThunderHorse]

When you are rallying for women's rights but don't want pro-life groups with you, that's why you get called libtards.

 

[Marauder06]

This whole thing is absurd to me. When one crazy right wing dude shoots up a church or blows up a federal building he is an extremist. Not representative of a political party or even a mainstream political movement. When millions of women people protest peacefully over the course of a weekend, almost all of whom are on the left, a few hundred in one place are then representative of libtards and the left? Such absurd hypocrisy.

Virtue signaling(@Marauder06) I'm a liberal. And they don't represent me or anyone I know....

Nice try at blame shifting, but that's not going to fly here. Maybe these violent criminals do not represent you, but they do represent your movement. THIS IS WHAT THE LEFT HAS BECOME. It's all about the separation. It's all about hating the "other." It's all about the violence.

You (ETA: "you" in the general sense of the political left, not "you" the person) talk about the "alt-right," but the "ctl-left" is what we really have to fear in this country. Anything that doesn't toe the "progressive" line is subject to ridicule and attack. Any type of dissent or even attempt at rational discussion is shouted down or shut out. Any kind of bad behavior is excused if people felt "upset." Even before the election the left was physically and verbally attacking conservatives and Trump supporters. That violence has continued, and magnified. How come this degree of violence doesn't regularly occur at right-wing rallies? How many controversial speakers (I'm sorry, "provocateurs") from the left are violently prohibited from speaking at conservative universities? How much of this "increase in hate crimes" is faked, exaggerated, or likely committed by leftists themselves?

Like I said earlier in this thread, the left is everything it says it fears about the right.

"Love trumps hate involves a lot more assault and arson than I thought it would."

 

[TLDR20]

Nice try at blame shifting, but that's not going to fly here. Maybe these violent criminals do not represent you, but they do represent your movement. THIS IS WHAT THE LEFT HAS BECOME. It's all about the separation. It's all about hating the "other." It's all about the violence.

You talk about the "alt-right," but the "ctl-left" is what we really have to fear in this country. Anything that doesn't toe the "progressive" line is subject to ridicule and attack. Any type of dissent or even attempt at rational discussion is shouted down or shut out. Any kind of bad behavior is excused if people felt "upset." Even before the election the left was physically and verbally attacking conservatives and Trump supporters. That violence has continued, and magnified. How come this degree of violence doesn't regularly occur at right-wing rallies? How many controversial speakers (I'm sorry, "provocateurs") from the left are violently prohibited from speaking at conservative universities? How much of this "increase in hate crimes" is faked, exaggerated, or likely committed by leftists themselves?

Like I said earlier in this thread, the left is everything it says it fears about the right.

"Love trumps hate involves a lot more assault and arson than I thought it would."

View attachment 17988

Find a post with me talking about the Alt right... I'll wait...


Find a time when I have toed the progressive line. Again, I'll wait.

Global warming isn't a progressive thing, it is a science thing. Marriage equality and marijuana legalization aren't progressive things they are libertarian ones. The only straight up progressive stance I have is on education, as I think that is a national defense initiative.

You don't get to generalize just like I don't. When I do, I expect to be called on it. Just like I will call out absurd ass bullshit.

I come on here and argue points, but I certainly don't shout down opposing arguments.

If the generalization game is in play, which I have tried as hard as I can to stay away from, I can overgeneralize hard in the paint with anyone.

I am pro-gun, and anti shitty government.

 

[Il Duce]

Nice try at blame shifting, but that's not going to fly here. Maybe these violent criminals do not represent you, but they do represent your movement. THIS IS WHAT THE LEFT HAS BECOME. It's all about the separation. It's all about hating the "other." It's all about the violence.

You talk about the "alt-right," but the "ctl-left" is what we really have to fear in this country. Anything that doesn't toe the "progressive" line is subject to ridicule and attack. Any type of dissent or even attempt at rational discussion is shouted down or shut out. Any kind of bad behavior is excused if people felt "upset." Even before the election the left was physically and verbally attacking conservatives and Trump supporters. That violence has continued, and magnified. How come this degree of violence doesn't regularly occur at right-wing rallies? How many controversial speakers (I'm sorry, "provocateurs") from the left are violently prohibited from speaking at conservative universities? How much of this "increase in hate crimes" is faked, exaggerated, or likely committed by leftists themselves?

Like I said earlier in this thread, the left is everything it says it fears about the right.

"Love trumps hate involves a lot more assault and arson than I thought it would."

View attachment 17988

This really surprised me coming from you. I would not have thought this represents your views. I get frustration with many left-leaning organizations - but it's a diverse place, with a reasonably diverse set of views.

If this is the standard - you must be represented by all groups, or the (perceived) dominant groups, or the most extreme groups on your side of the political spectrum then I would expect zero anger at being called racist, homophobic, misogynistic, and anti-Semitic - since all of those views are well-represented on the right of the spectrum, with more than a significant number of ties to more mainstream parts of the conservative world.

I've always found the argument solid that those movements and views don't necessarily represent someone on the conservative end of the spectrum. I find it disturbing when that logic is then applied to the left.

If you're really interested in the answers to the rhetorical questions you posed the southern poverty law center keeps detailed statistics on violent political movements and their activities - there are more than enough to match your examples on the left if violence against protesters at President Trump's campaign rallies is not enough evidence. I think your answer on speakers at conservative universities is disingenuous at best. Take a look at the charters, rules of conduct, and speaking list from Liberty University, Bob Jones, or that ilk on the right - they don't invite speakers with liberal views and they have very strict covenants on how students are expelled - which can be simply for having or expressing views contrary to the University. It's the reason FIRE can pursue legal remedies at liberal - or just not conservative - universities.

I'm all about calling out liberal hypocrisy as a liberal. I think it's one of the few good things that can come out of the left's decimation in electoral politics but this standard of guilt by association and generalizations is hard for me to fathom.

 

[ThunderHorse]

I would like you to actually cite the source for such a claim, looking at Liberty's Code of Conduct, there is nothing about your overgeneralization. Whereas it is a sheer fact that violence on public Universities towards conservative speakers has been tolerated multiple time just in the State of California alone.

 

[Il Duce]

I would like you to actually cite the source for such a claim, looking at Liberty's Code of Conduct, there is nothing about your overgeneralization. Whereas it is a sheer fact that violence on public Universities towards conservative speakers has been tolerated multiple time just in the State of California alone.

Your eyeballs will probably fall out reading the daily kos but it's a decent summary of the liberty code and consequences, plus it's one of the first few google entries: Liberty University's "The Liberty Way" exposed

 

[ThunderHorse]

Your eyeballs will probably fall out reading the daily kos but it's a decent summary of the liberty code and consequences, plus it's one of the first few google entries: Liberty University's "The Liberty Way" exposed

I went to VMI, the fines listed in the book make life look easy. We marched in circles with a rifle and did manual labor for not doing things as outlined in the blue book.

Liberty is a private University, as such can create rules you may willingly submit yourself to, or choose not to attend. But, raw, unfiltered from Liberty: https://www.liberty.edu/media/1210/Student_Honor_Code.pdf

 

[Marauder06]

Find a post with me talking about the Alt right... I'll wait...


Find a time when I have toed the progressive line. Again, I'll wait.

Global warming isn't a progressive thing, it is a science thing. Marriage equality and marijuana legalization aren't progressive things they are libertarian ones. The only straight up progressive stance I have is on education, as I think that is a national defense initiative.

You don't get to generalize just like I don't. When I do, I expect to be called on it. Just like I will call out absurd ass bullshit.

I come on here and argue points, but I certainly don't shout down opposing arguments.

If the generalization game is in play, which I have tried as hard as I can to stay away from, I can overgeneralize hard in the paint with anyone.

I am pro-gun, and anti shitty government.

So we're "hating" each others' posts when we disagree now? OK, here's some right back at you.

But doesn't your reaction prove my point? "Here's a clearly articulated political position, which includes specific examples and citations, but it causes me to experience cognitive dissonance so... straight to hate!" You can't refute what I wrote, so you resort to calling them "absurd ass bullshit."

I thought it was clear from the context of my post that the "you" was used in a general sense, referring to the political left, and was not directed at "you," a fellow SS staff member and longtime debate partner. I will go back and edit my original post to ensure there's no confusion.

But if we're talking about you, then yes, I think you are a progressive, if we accept a definition from an article in say... I don't know... the Huffington Post. Or Wikipedia. Or the dictionary.

I found your "hard in the paint" argument interesting. I seem to remember using a similar basketball metaphor in a separate discussion, expressing concern about exactly the type of thing that is happening in this thread right now.

But I'm not trying to make this about you. This was, and is, a discussion of the degeneration of the political left, as evidenced by the events directly related to the topic of this thread.

 

[RackMaster]

@Il Duce I've seen more racism and especially anti-semitism on the Left than the Right lately; bigotry has no political master. There's plenty of assholes throughput the whole spectrum and frankly it won't disappear until we all recognize it. This is just one article on it, I was surprised to find it in USA Today but there's many more.

The anti-Semitism we hoped to never see again: Column